Just how tough are flatworms????75 SYSTEM RESET

[CleveYank]

Did system reboot on 75 growout.
Well it was supposed to be a growout. But it soon became a flatworm breeding machine that despite 4 times the dosage of flatworm exit...still they existed.

Moved contents into 20 gallon tank and hit it with interceptor and 10 times the dosage of flatworm Exit. Yes I did type 10 times. Shook rocks and corals to leave as many flatworms in the 75 before placing in 20 gal.

Drained roughly 2/3rds water out. Ran hose from sink and turned on the hotwater. Filled her with hotwater out of the hose and fired up the system.

No kidding. Flatworms continued to live and move along the glass for at least 20 to 25 mintues. It was not until the halfway point in between draining it did they finally kick it. Holy lack of instant osmotic shock Batman!!! Anything else with the heat and the drastic salt content change not to mention pH would perish almost immediately.

So far system reset has been successful. Everything soaked in interceptor/flatworm exit cocktail for 18 hours with heater and powerhead. Refilled and everything seems to be doing well.

So we shall see.

 

[Brad Black]

yeesh...

 

[CleveYank]

Yeesh is right. tell me about it.



For a moment there. I started to think...hey dummy should you have completely emptied it before hotwater refilling to nuke the tank and system?

I thought I'd save about 30 gallons of water and the fill siphon time cut by a little by not going all the way down. Fortunately, it did kill them but I had a moment of OMG there.

If this doesn't work it's going to be chlorox time. I'm tired of fooling with the parasites. And I will have to adhere to my resolve to have an extreme Quarantine of all livestock. I never had to resort to this. And when I did have Q-tank setup it was minimal. Hey but on the bright side. Now I only have 3 tanks to go. And about 4 to 8 months before I can add everything into 2 separate loops. Argh!!!! (the pirate kind not the charlie brown kind)

 

[rustybucket145]

what kind of flatworms were they?

 

[CleveYank]

These were a funky brownish green. Look just like the reddish brown ones, but more green in them. And apparently really tough motha's.

 

[saltysupply]

ive only had one flatworm outbreak and they just disappeared after about a month...although they are very ugly to have all over a tank.

 

[CleveYank]

salty, I too have had them come and go.

When I ordered my first order of corals from Tropicorium in 99 or 2000 I got the red flatworms in with their frag packs.

The red flatworms peaked and then the population just collapsed and disappeared.

C-Sea Fragswap in 04 and 07 passed along the green flatworms my way and they never left. Due to lighting changes and system ups and downs (light system issues) I had to move a few things from one system to another. Dipping didn't do a thing to stop any of this. 5 or 6 boxes of flatworm exit in the systems in their full volume at 3 to 4 times dosage killed most but not all and didn't help. So I am resorting to batch hammering (adopting scorched earth policy) of the contents of each and every system. Each and every rock, coral and fragment until I kill off every flatworm. Then will come a secondary and tirciary interceptor treatment in the respective systems after they are up and running in their respective 2 and 3 week cycles.

Again, quarantine tanks. With fish a bit of copper and a week to 2 weeks and you are good to go. With redbugs, aptaisia, mojano's, and acro eating flatworms, and red and greenish brown flatworms. There really is no question that Q-tanks are a mojor requirement. I have been doing this a long time (since January 8, 1989) and these recent parasite issues have been the most challenging aspect of this hobby that I have ever endured.

 

[MJAnderson]

There are some other suggestions for battling them here:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-09/mc/index.php

 

[CleveYank]

mjanderson

I dipped all of my March of 07 intro's in Tropic Marin Pro Coral Cure. At double strength for 10 mintues. Tons of things including some white acro eaters came off. I still got more flatworms.
They mention using Tropic Marin Pro Coral Cure in the article.

And their flatworm exit at 30 times the dosage. At say for example my 75 which has almost 80 gallons total system volume with the sump. If you go 30 times the dosage of flatworm exit, they are talking about ALOT of Flatworm exit at $15 per BOX.


dropper/package holds approx 200 drops.


If you use flatworm exits directions to calculate then go to their 30 times you get:


At four drops for very 5 gallons of water and then convert to the articles 30 times the dosage.

So 4 drops times 30 = 120 drops to treat 5 gallons
So at the articles dosasge you are at 120 drops

Then my system 80 gallons / 5 gallons = 16

16 times 120 = 1920 drops to treat the 80 gallons of my system volume.

the package at 200 drops per package...you will need almost 10 packages at $15 a box.

Hence, my 18 hour soaking at 10 times the dosage and in the smallest tank possible to hold all of the contents. Going from 80 gallons of tank down 20 gallons provided extreme control and lower amounts of the total flatworm exit. Freshwater flushing with water just short of too hot to put your hand in was used to flush the entire 80 system. This was to avoid lengthy carbon sessions and cost and questions did I get them out.

I am not sure it worked and only time will tell. But it appeared sound and cost effective on Friday morning when I put my foot down and decided that it was now time to attempt to find a way to resolve via this exercise. Hopefully it worked. I posted my attempt in order to share the exercise and will do like in kind no matter what the end result may be.

Keep your fingers crossed.

 

[MJAnderson]

Geez, Didn't realize it would require that much exit. I think they were focused on AEFW, where people usually mix up a bucket and dip the coral. Looks like nuking it works, but what a pain.

 

[crazyseany]

I read (or maybe dreamt I read(which is kinda scary)) about using PIG wormer to get rid of flatworms?
works better then FE and is a lot cheaper.
if anyone has heard of this let me know so I know I am not nuts.
sean

 

[CleveYank]

Wow Sean I have not seen pig meds info

Wow Sean I have not seen pig meds info

If you recall where you saw it bring it up, will ya?


hmmm another thing to google.

RE: dreaming or reading
seany...on the scary....dreaming or reading.

I dreamt I was in a happy place...and then I woke up and realized I was in a place in which dogs have more rights than you and I.

Criminals and children supposedly have rights and need to be heard. Both should have the rights they earn and or are given to them.

The American Public Must Truly be that Stoned in that another Clinton may become president. No explanation needed unless you are one of those of the truely stoned.

We care more about some drug addicted blonde hillbilly chic's parental custody woes. hmmm initials are as funny as the line...BS....lol

And that anyone that thinks that miller beer little alone miller lite even resembles anything other than goat's pee (imagine for I have never tried goats pee but if I had I bet it tastes just like the highlife). Need I point out that for instance the Budwieser equal in Holland Is Heineken???

Sorry for the segway...hmmm is that how you speel segway?

So Seany. you are not alone in not knowing where dreams, nightmares and reality somehow become mixed in the myre. I say You Sir, are not alone.

----rants end....
where was I?

Oh yeah...if you recall where you saw that info please tell.


Disclaimer...
Just trying to keep it interesting and if I can't humor you I can at least humor myself.
And my apology if members of PETA, N.O.W., The Democratic Party, The masses of the Blind Sheep or Brit Spears National Fan Club members were offended in anyway. For this is a serious subject matter which I have undertaken and attempted to share my results with the rest.

 

[MJAnderson]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11075757#post11075757 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by crazyseany
I read (or maybe dreamt I read(which is kinda scary)) about using PIG wormer to get rid of flatworms?
works better then FE and is a lot cheaper.
if anyone has heard of this let me know so I know I am not nuts.
sean

Are you thinking Interceptor? It's used to treat dogs for worms but it's for red bugs, not AEFW.

 

[CleveYank]

???????

???????

wait a minute. Good distinction here MJAnderson.

I, to my knowledge, never had the acro eating flatworms. I did kill off a few with dipping in March 07 swap. But with successive dips I never saw them again.

Hey Sean? Is there a cross on worm type for (as we can refer to it) the pig med method? Which worm we talking about?

 

[CleveYank]

Sean, google says this with a link. I think the pig med method is AEFW...........
But hey thanks for the lead anyway Sean.



To Quote:
"Mike Paletta spoke about a relatively new treatment for AEFW that has been developed using Levamisol, a drug commonly used as a pig de-wormer that is available through farm supply stores, or your veterinarian. Again, several protocols have been developed for the use of Levamisol against AEFW, so do some research and choose a method that best suits your situation."

full article located at:

http://thatfishblog.blogspot.com/2007/09/pharmaceutical-use-in-marine-aquarium.html

 

[MJAnderson]

I was making the assumption that all flatworms are the same. I aplogize to any flatworms I may have insulted.

After looking some more Levamisol, a pig dewormer, is used for AEFW and Interceptor, a dog dewormer, is used for red bugs. Seems I made the same mistake in assuming that the worms in dogs are the same as the worms in pigs. Oddly enough...they aren't.

 

[crazyseany]

I have had the stupid red bugs.
so far I have just siphoned them out (note to self.... when water starts coming out the end DO NOT get sidetracked by daughter playing video game and forget to remove hose from mouth.) (note to others.... red bugs mixed with saltwater tastes like crap/budweiser mixed (who could tell the difference anyways).

when you were talking about custody and drugged up blonde I thought of Anna Nicole.....

I prefer guiness and some of the wheat / oatmeal / other types of beer but after having a reef tank I am more of a Busch/colt 45 budget.

I must leave now as I have a cramp in my thumb.
dang cell phone

sean

will slick willy still be known as the first lady?

 

[CleveYank]

I will continue to update progress in "flatworms removal: a scorched earth policy"

 

[Reefdiver72]

Pig wormer works very well look up Mitch Carls paper he wrote on it I cant think of the ingrideint to look for starts with a L but its cheap and works real well.

 

[itZme]

Levamisole is what Mitch Carl says to use but not to treat a tank. He was talking about making a dip. It would take a huge amount to do an entire tank and he claims you lose about 20% of corals.

Here's the article.