Just started carbon dosing...

[xtlosx]

So some of you probably saw my other thread but wanted to update here. Frags I got are all looking amazing and think I made a breakthrough discovery yesterday..

I just so happened to reach in my ATO tank, 10G glass tank and noticed some weird growth looking stuff on the bottom of the tank... I reached around and noticed there were was weird clear\brown jelly crap that I could like scrape off the glass everywhere, the aqualifter and after I scrubbed enough it was just coming off EVERYWHERE and floating all over. Immediately I took the aqualifter out, scrubbed it real good and made fresh RO water into a clean bucket I use to store RO water. I'm not doing ATO from outside my tank until I figure out a way to clean that ATO container.

Long story short, before doing all of this, I tested the TDS from the ATO reservoir, it was 14ppm and that was just from the new water I had just dumped in there, so I'm guessing water that had sat for a day or two and was being slowly pumped in easily had 14.. 20..50ppm?

So at the end of the day I have been beating myself up daily doing water changes, using GFO and GAC heavily, carbon dosing, skimming heavily, and low and behold it was very likely just my ATO water that I was constantly adding nutrient rich water into slowly, then turning around and removing it. I very well have been chasing my tail for several months.

At the end of the day, clean your ATO tank very well every couple of weeks is the lesson learned here...

My frags looks better than they ever have and seeing colors on them I have never seen before....... cyano is disappearing, and my rocks are looking remarkably clean. Unbelievable...

 

[xtlosx]

Looking better and better every single day.... Sand is going from being covered in red cyano, now large chunks are back to white, and the "red" parts are now brown'ish..

See ya cyano and welcome back my reef.

 

[Timber77]

Good to see that water changes work eventually the gfo will pull out all the phosphate keep running it, I think your giving the carbon credit for what your water changes and gfo are doing. once the gfo gets rid of all the phosphates, you shouldn't have to run gfo at all, till then your rocks and sand are still probably gonna need gfo for several more months maybe a year to get all the phosphates out. it does help to get a tooth brush and manually scrub the rocks, might wanna consider a skimmer upgrade at some point, thats a lot of water for such a small skimmer

 

[xtlosx]

Good to see that water changes work eventually the gfo will pull out all the phosphate keep running it, I think your giving the carbon credit for what your water changes and gfo are doing. once the gfo gets rid of all the phosphates, you shouldn't have to run gfo at all, till then your rocks and sand are still probably gonna need gfo for several more months maybe a year to get all the phosphates out. it does help to get a tooth brush and manually scrub the rocks, might wanna consider a skimmer upgrade at some point, thats a lot of water for such a small skimmer

With all due respect, I am absolutely not giving carbon dosing more credit than what is is doing. I say this because I've been dealing with this never ending problem since June and it's now December. Since June I started doing weekly water changes, but no matter how quickly I sucked up pounds of cyano from my rocks and sand, it was back within days. I went through a LOT of GFO, changing bi-weekly and it never made a dent in the cyano. Nothing changed for months and nearly got me to shut this tank down until I got to about 20ml of vinegar.

Suddenly my glass was no longer getting algae for a week at a time whereas before it was cleaning almost daily. No more were my chalices, SPS, and other corals dying, and barely hanging on, but actually beginning to thrive again and grow at a visible growth. When I ripped cyano mats off my sand, they didn't come back unlike before where they would just coat the sand again within days..

So after carbon dosing I have solved any nitrate issues I had (which I had, but had no idea because my test kits always showed 0s) and it started eating away and making my GFO and phosphate reduction more efficient.

I realize this is difficult to come across in a thread, but this is six months in the making, and nothing changed, literally nothing besides carbon dosing and now I'm here, basically about to step out of the tunnel and into the light.

Carbon dosing has been great and it has also allowed me to feed twice daily+ my fish and keep them fat in the process. If I tried putting any SPS in months ago, they would've been engulfed in relentless cyano within days, now I can grow anything I want without issue.

Not to mention, when looking at a cross section of my sand, it's getting clearer and not solid red\green... More nutrients exported through my skimmer means my sandbed is working less.

Also, my skimmer is not small, there are others who have much larger tanks with this skimmer. It does a great job.

 

[Timber77]

yes you are giving credit to alcohol dosing instead of the gfo, as to your real problem re-read page one of this thread , you ignored the most important thing to do:check your source water ( you opened a recent thread about 14ppm in your ato container- thats your problem) you have been water changing phosphates into your tank, the gfo is removing them, but its really not effective if you keep adding phosphates with water changes. Its simple chemistry. once you fix your source water problem the gfo will get rid of the phosphates... your test kits are useless for this, if you have cyan you have phosphates feeding it. just fix your water source and continue with gfo, the alcohol dosing will help with nitrates but it really is not gonna help with your phosphate issue, fixing the source water will cure it and gfo is the bandaid fix. and if your happy with that skimmer on 175 gallons of water then bless you, I guess I'm just used to using a much bigger skimmer on a cyano free reef tank thats about the same size and have been into reefing 25 years and have degrees in biology and chemistry. I was trying to help you get rid of your cyano in my first post and still am... The key to the hobby is to go slow and not make sudden changes, have read enough of your incorrect theory on carbon dosing, its not ideal for removing phosphates it will help with nitrates. I think you are unintentionally gonna convince people that alcohol dosing will cure their problem, when you have posted that its your ato water. Worse than CNN giving half a story for headlines...Proper water changes and gfo will cure your cyano. then you can stop with the gfo. don't worry about testing, if you have cyano you have phosphates, and phosphates bound into your rock work will not register on any hobby grade test kits. There is nothing wrong with carbon dosing, however if go check out most awesome zeo systems you will notice the very good looking ones are always running way oversized skimmers to gain the benefits of the dosing and export via skimmer. The point is kinda mute in this case as you solved your own problem in your other thread about having skunked ato water. I would quit adding things to your tank till you get the chemistry in check, but that takes patience.

 

[xtlosx]

yes you are giving credit to alcohol dosing instead of the gfo, as to your real problem re-read page one of this thread , you ignored the most important thing to do:check your source water ( you opened a recent thread about 14ppm in your ato container- thats your problem) you have been water changing phosphates into your tank, the gfo is removing them, but its really not effective if you keep adding phosphates with water changes. Its simple chemistry. once you fix your source water problem the gfo will get rid of the phosphates... your test kits are useless for this, if you have cyan you have phosphates feeding it. just fix your water source and continue with gfo, the alcohol dosing will help with nitrates but it really is not gonna help with your phosphate issue, fixing the source water will cure it and gfo is the bandaid fix. and if your happy with that skimmer on 175 gallons of water then bless you, I guess I'm just used to using a much bigger skimmer on a cyano free reef tank thats about the same size and have been into reefing 25 years and have degrees in biology and chemistry. I was trying to help you get rid of your cyano in my first post and still am... The key to the hobby is to go slow and not make sudden changes, have read enough of your incorrect theory on carbon dosing, its not ideal for removing phosphates it will help with nitrates. I think you are unintentionally gonna convince people that alcohol dosing will cure their problem, when you have posted that its your ato water. Worse than CNN giving half a story for headlines...Proper water changes and gfo will cure your cyano. then you can stop with the gfo. don't worry about testing, if you have cyano you have phosphates, and phosphates bound into your rock work will not register on any hobby grade test kits. There is nothing wrong with carbon dosing, however if go check out most awesome zeo systems you will notice the very good looking ones are always running way oversized skimmers to gain the benefits of the dosing and export via skimmer. The point is kinda mute in this case as you solved your own problem in your other thread about having skunked ato water. I would quit adding things to your tank till you get the chemistry in check, but that takes patience.

Thanks for your contribution, but to be honest my progress had already started and was moving along very well before I found out about my ATO container. When I fixed that, it had only helped move things along. I realize per Randy's article that carbon dosing is heavily balanced more toward nitrate reduction vs phosphate reduction, but obviously carbon dosing had a huge impact on my system regardless. This was WELL before the ATO situation came into play. That only helped move things along quicker.

I ran GAC&GFO for almost six months heavily, and did almost weekly water changes with zero results. One week after starting carbon dosing changes were visible, and when the dose increased, the improvements couldn't be ignored. Re-Read my thread because water changes alone did nothing, nor did GFO&GAC before carbon dosing.

Once again thank you for the contribution to the thread. I am not misleading anyone on, just wanted to provide my experience. While I may not have a degree in water science or chemistry, I have real life experience and just wanted to share that with the group in the hopes that it would help someone else.

 

[Timber77]

how could the water changes help if your using bad source water? maybe the gfo finally caught up and thats why you are seeing results. i bet you could stop your carbon dosing, with the fixed ro water problem and get better results. But what do I know, oh ya I don't have cyano and have fixed it on at least a dozen systems , main culprit is always the source water, then old bulbs.... most people with get a little bit of cyano when they start carbon dosing on a healthy system, to do it on a tank with pre existing cyano doesn't make any sense...i think a few others told you this back on page 1. If you would post all your "findings" in one thread you might just use traditional means of getting rid of the phosphates instead of trying to convince people that carbon dosing gets rid of phosphates, it most certainly does not. not even close. If you really want to share your experience you shouldn't mislead people with half facts

 

[xtlosx]

how could the water changes help if your using bad source water? maybe the gfo finally caught up and thats why you are seeing results. i bet you could stop your carbon dosing, with the fixed ro water problem and get better results. But what do I know, oh ya I don't have cyano and have fixed it on at least a dozen systems , main culprit is always the source water, then old bulbs.... most people with get a little bit of cyano when they start carbon dosing on a healthy system, to do it on a tank with pre existing cyano doesn't make any sense...i think a few others told you this back on page 1. If you would post all your "findings" in one thread you might just use traditional means of getting rid of the phosphates instead of trying to convince people that carbon dosing gets rid of phosphates, it most certainly does not. not even close. If you really want to share your experience you shouldn't mislead people with half facts

You're sorely misunderstanding and not understanding here.

The source water is NOT the problem. When I do a water change, the TDS coming out and being changed was 0. Now when I was doing "top off" that top off was was NOT 0. Those are two different values.

What I'm telling you is, and if you do not choose to listen or agree then you can move on, I don't need or want an annoying chatty holier than thou voice on my thread. Nothing changed for almost five months, until the day my carbon dosing went to about 15-20ml. When I went to that dosage, my improvements were immediate. You can choose to accept it, or be in the crowd that thinks carbon dosing, LEDs, and everything that isn't 10x more rock and sand is the solution.

I'm not misleading anyone. You obviously aren't reading my thread(s) and you look like an a**. I never said carbon dosing was for everyone, and stated many a times that per Randy's research it is balanced to nitrate vs phosphates reduction by something like 16:1. For whatever reason, carbon dosing made my GFO work MUCH more efficient, and basically solved my issues. I just found out about my ATO water about 2 days ago, I've been carbon dosing for almost a month and have seen results since week two. Did I explain that clearly enough? Please just move on and learn to use paragraphs, your responses are painful to read.

 

[Timber77]

I did read your threads. You upped your gfo and did water changes, then you got results. You asked if the higher grade BRS was worth it. You were topping off your tank with high tis water. Its painful to think someone might read your thread, and actually think the carbon dosing helped solve a cyano problem. If you understood Randy's research then you would realize that the 16:1 ratio your referencing would not go for long because there is a need for some nitrates in order for the oxidation reactions happening in your tank to eliminate the phosphates. In some cases the only way to reduce phosphates in a reef setting is to introduce nitrates, not in you case. Google limiting resource and oxidization-reduction reactions. You tank pictures show a tank infested with cyano and it still it still looks like a cyano farm. Keep up with the gfo. Carbon dosing is not gonna fix the problem. Your hypothesis that carbon dosing made your gfo more efficient is wrong. Im done chiming in, was really trying to help you solve your problem. You seem more intent on making false claims on phosphate removal than actually fixing your problem.

 

[xtlosx]

I did read your threads. You upped your gfo and did water changes, then you got results. You asked if the higher grade BRS was worth it. You were topping off your tank with high tis water. Its painful to think someone might read your thread, and actually think the carbon dosing helped solve a cyano problem. If you understood Randy's research then you would realize that the 16:1 ratio your referencing would not go for long because there is a need for some nitrates in order for the oxidation reactions happening in your tank to eliminate the phosphates. In some cases the only way to reduce phosphates in a reef setting is to introduce nitrates, not in you case. Google limiting resource and oxidization-reduction reactions. You tank pictures show a tank infested with cyano and it still it still looks like a cyano farm. Keep up with the gfo. Carbon dosing is not gonna fix the problem. Your hypothesis that carbon dosing made your gfo more efficient is wrong. Im done chiming in, was really trying to help you solve your problem. You seem more intent on making false claims on phosphate removal than actually fixing your problem.

What part of nothing changed in my tank for five months as this was going on, and I ONLY saw results a week after beginning carbon dosing are you not understanding? I didn't start using high capacity GFO until this week. I'm not claiming this is the end all be all problem fixer for everyone, I'm just stating my experience.

I did the SAME thing for five months, nothing happened, continued but introduced carbon dosing and since then my problem is going away and rather quickly. You're to hell bent on your own conclusions that you don't want to listen to my honest experience. What "false claims" am I making? Honestly, go away.

 

[Timber77]

Good luck, don't stop the GFO. Its the only thing keeping your phosphates at bay. It will work better now that you quit topping off with nutrient rich water.

 

[skunkmere]

Carbon dosing is the best thing to happen in the hobby since the 2 part recipe came down from God into Randy's head. Even though you found the nutrient source there is no reason to stop dosing carbon.

 

[xtlosx]

Carbon dosing is the best thing to happen in the hobby since the 2 part recipe came down from God into Randy's head. Even though you found the nutrient source there is no reason to stop dosing carbon.

I 100% agree. I plan on dosing 2 part when my SPS get to the point that they will need it.

What I have been trying to explain above and apparently it didn't work was running GFO&GAC for 12 months now, replacing every 2-3 weeks or when needed, water changes, did nothing for my situation.

If I wouldn't have started carbon dosing, I would still be sitting on dead frags and the same situation, just changing GAC&GFO out bi weekly. I am not a chemist so I can't explain it, but literally after starting carbon dosing, I'm here and it's a great feeling.

 

[taylor t]

So Tom, update please. How are things? Is your tank back to normal now?

 

[xtlosx]

So Tom, update please. How are things? Is your tank back to normal now?

hey thanks for reminding me about this thread, so it's been really interesting to say the least. All of the frags I posted earlier are doing well, and not only doing well but encrusting VERY rapidly. Several are going over the plug and will be hitting rock work shortly, so just going through any cyano that is present.

So what has changed? Well, end of december, I went from 20G water changes to 40G. I figured, go big or go home! Export those nutrients. It helped, but seemed after about a week it would just slowly start creeping back, but certainly there was less... Then I thought about what other variables do I have? I have read of people carbon dosing, but stopping once their nitrate or nutrient issues are under control. So I decided to one day very boldly, start stepping down..

Over the course of about two weeks I was down substantially and as I ramped down I never saw any differences, except for less cyano in certain spots! As of last Saturday, I have officially stopped carbon dosing and have notice a LOT less bacteria on my back glass, parts of my rock, and the sides of my fuge.. They were covered in them before, and now I actually have coraline growing all over the glass in the fuge, which in the over year my tank has been up, never grew ONE spec of coraline....

My biggest observation is the sand. It's become patchy where there is cyano, and totally was real interesting. While I was replacing water for the change, I noticed a patch of cyano on my sand that was red before the WC turn rusty, then minutes later, was just sand. it's like cyano was never there.

So my observation and conclusion so far in this case has been that while carbon dosing helped me get the process (whichever was necessary) started some time ago, maybe at some point it was just adding more organics that weren't being exported fast enough..

There has always been this one corner in the back right of my tank that is too far for a hose to siphon, and in general untouchable by me, so there was always a little 3"x3" or so chunk of cyano on the sand that has been there for MONTHS. Literally, months.... last night, it started to get little holes in it, and today I'm seeing a large chunk of sand in that spot.

The other thing I did was actually with the bigger water changes go to high capacity BRS GFO. I do a cup weekly and change it with the WC. The phosphate tester (hanna) sucks to be honest and isn't a great measure of anything for me. I can do the test twice in a row and one time get .2 and another get .00. I know I have phosphates because of the unsightly algae, I'm at the point in this tank that everything looks great and I can grow SPS. Since then I have added a whole bunch of real nice choice SPS frags and am enjoying watching them grow..

We also added a yellow eye kole tang last weekend that has become the family favorite.. What a cool fish.

I hope to report some even better news now that I am no longer carbon dosing, and the water changes are doubled. I figure this one that I just completed about 30 minutes ago should start showing some HUGE results whereas when I was carbon dosing it did for a bit then started loading bacteria back into the system.

I'm now making fresh water and getting ready to start mixing salt, and almost five days into a WC, to have so much nice white sand, clean rocks, etc is amazing.. it hasn't happened in a very long time. Everything in the tank is doing awesome, and I'll have an even better understanding next week once I do my WC on Tuesday. I'm holding a bunch of frags (more expensive type SPS) and they are doing awesome!

My non-scientific conclusion is, whatever was going on was not good... carbon dosing spurred SOMETHING, and too much was actually taking me backwards. So for a long term solution, it's not, but it certainly kicked off what I needed.. We're on the right track now and I plan on two part dosing in the next month to keep up with all of the SPS I have.

I noticed that the day I STOPPED dosing, my purple gig was about 30% larger... it's now just HUGE............ I mean HUGE. I'll update its thread when it hits a year old (next month). That one is more for you Taylor_T.

 

[xtlosx]

Pictoral updates..... I almost forgot my sand was actually white underneath all of that cyano.

This is after a 40G water change yesterday and high capacity GFO change.

Full tank shots... While I still have some cyano, you can see from the beginning of this thread, it's MUCH better....

Much Much nicer to look at.... as I do these double sized weekly water changes, it is looking much better.

You can see from the side, my sand is whitening up big time each time I do a water change, so my understanding is there is less nutrients bogged and sitting in the queue waiting to be processed.

No clue what this is, but holding it for a buddy.... the colors are beautiful, orange, baby blue, and more..

Loripes frag I got locally recently.

Aussie Saramentosa that is green body, purple tips and pink polyps.. my favorite so far, this thing is beautifiul!

A sad raspberry limeade I got locally that was almost totally dead when it came in is really filling in nicely now.. no purples yet, but the greens are back in full force.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-VF6b_yRSseY/UulDvTeo1wI/AAAAAAAAFvc/bcuM5vE90WQ/s640/IMG_2928.JPG[/img]

 

[xtlosx]

GARF purple bonzai..

My meat coral..

much much less cyano.....

Limeade frag encrusting quickly, and really getting that green body in.

 

[TheReefNinja]

Looking good Tom. We need to get the kids together soon. Work has been crazy. working more in the cold than we did this summer.

 

[xtlosx]

Looking good Tom. We need to get the kids together soon. Work has been crazy. working more in the cold than we did this summer.

Thanks Tom! it looks several times better now, it's amazing... Water changes and GFO at this point are my savior. Whatever was going on initially carbon dosing helped get things back on track.. SPS are now growing wonderfully.

Give me a ring in the next couple weeks and we'll get the families together.