Kalk for pH

[wbdevers]

Hey all. Couple of questions regarding the use of kalk to raise pH. Here are my tank parameters as of two days ago: NO3-0, PO4-0, pH 7.9, Ca+-460, Alk-152ppm/8.5dKH/3.1meq/L, Temp-80, SG-1.0265.

The specifics of my tank are in my signature.

My tank has had what I consider low pH ever since I set it up. I have run the outside aeration test with little to no decrease in pH so I can't blame excess CO2. I would like to raise my pH to around 8.2 even though nothing in my tank shows any signs of being unhappy. I've been using B-Ionic 2 part and pH hasn't changed, Alk stays the same and Ca+ has increased a little (did notice my coralline taking off now).

Having said all of this should I bother using kalk right now or should I just get a pH adjuster solution from my LFS? Next, if I should use the kalk, what rate do I mix it (tsp per gallon etc?)? I'm space limited so it will be a small container (thinking a quart).

Thanks for all of the help.

 

[tmz]

Adding buffers or solutions to raise ph is not useful since they will raise alkalinity and any effect on ph will be very short lived as CO2 from the air equilibrates with the water or biological activity in the tank adds CO2 putting you close to back where you started but with higher alk.

Using some kalk in lieu of two part should help but kalk will add calcium and alk in balanced proportions. It does raise ph too but must be dosed slowly over a period of time generally limited to top off requirements over at least 5 hours ,preferably 24 hours. It can be mixed with ro water at a max of two tsps per gallon and should be allowed to settle out for acouple of hours before dripping it into the tank with care to avoid dosing the slurry at the bottom of the container.

A CO2 scrubber attached to the skimmer intake is a way to raise ph without raising alk. Here is a thread on it:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1889552&highlight=co+scrubber

 

[johnnyb05]

i dont like to buffer, it changes your alk to fast and corals dont like that. make sure you change things slowly. i use limewater, i mix 1 tsp to 1 gal of RO/DI water in my 5 gal ATO for evaporation. its easy and cheap. (if you buy bulk) you can try it in place of your two part. the best way is to drip it in like with a reeffiller pump. it will help with low ph. also full strenght is 2 tsp to 1 gal. it really depends on your system. if the limewater doesnt keep up with your tanks demands for alk and cal add the two part also. sometimes when my cal is to high and the alk is good i stop limewater and just use baked baking soda in my ATO. and over the course of a week or so the cal comes down and all along the alk stays stable. then i go back to limewater. shoot for NSW levels on all your chemistry. dont change alk or ph fast. use the reef calculator it will show what the proper balance is between alk and cal. and how much to use.

 

[bertoni]

That pH is fine and I wouldn't worry very much. If you want to use limewater to raise it a bit, I'd recommend getting an ATO setup with a slow-dose pump of some sort. You could do a drip by hand, but that gets very tedious over time, IME.

 

[wbdevers]

I really didn't want to use a buffer dose as well because I'm not a big fan of "solutions" in a bottle. I've got an ATO system, but I don't think I have it set properly. I just started my sump a week ago so I'm working out the kinks as far as flow rates and all. My ATO doesn't seem to turn on when my levels get low. I think I've got the floats set too low but I will just have to keep an eye on it. What I don't understand is that even when the level in my tank goes down and the sump stays the same (I understand that part) how is my ATO going to know. By the time it would get that low in the sump my SG would be way high. Anyway, because of this using my ATO to dose won't do any good at the moment. I searched for a DIY dripper and built it today. It is a quart so I mixed in 1/4 tsp of pickling lime to the RO/DI water. It didn't turn cloudy/ milky and there was VERY little gunk on the bottom. Did I not add enough lime or is it okay? I don't mind dripping by hand since the dripper I built has a valve. Suggestions or help always welcome.

Thanks

 

[bertoni]

I'd try dripping the clear fluid. It should be fine. Just be careful about overdosing.

I'm not sure what's wrong with your ATO setup, but I'd look into it.

 

[wbdevers]

Thanks Jonathan. I have dual floats. The second one is higher than the first--prevents overfilling. If I pull them out and hold the one it comes one. The more I think about this the more I wonder if I screwed up my floats. :hmm4:

No, I didn't because when I pull them out, the lower float "sinks" and the pump turns on. If I turn it upside down, it shuts off (as it should).

Given this, how will it ever reach a low enough level to top off? It would have to drop a significant amount( 3-4 gallons) from my DT for the sump to ever be affected. The sump will stay constant as long as water is coming in from the overflow and being pumped out at the same rate all the time.

 

[nanojg]

I am very confused. Can you post a diagram or description of you plumbing.

Evaporation should result in the return section of your sump losing volume, not your display tank

 

[bertoni]

I agree. I don't understand what's going on yet.

 

[wbdevers]

Uploading pics now. As soon as they are done, I will post them in the thread.

 

[wbdevers]

Okay, here we go. My tank isn't drilled so I went with an overflow box. I drain on the right side of my tank down to my sump. I control the amount of water coming down with a ball valve. The drain side is 1". My sump is a DIY custom build. I couldn't get anything larger through my openings so it is what it is. The first chamber receives the water from drain. My HOB skimmer also picks water from here. It overflows the first baffle and enters the middle chamber which has Chaeto in it. Skimmer returns here. Water then flows through bubble trap and is pumped out from the last chamber to the return. This line is 3/4 all the way. It too has a ball valve but it is open all the way. The middle chamber is where the float switches are for my ATO. The ATO will pump top off into the pump chamber (if/when it works). Below are pics showing all of this. Sorry for the couple of shots under actinics.

The more I've thought about this the more I've gotten confused my self. By physical law the sump will never get low until the DT has dropped below the overflow level and basically broken siphon. As long as you are pumping the same amount back in as is coming down the drain the sump could care less how much water is in the DT. The sump level remains the same. Unless I'm completely missing something (probably am) I don't see how this will work.

Grrrrr!! Please help because this sump is about to make me lose more hair! :mad2:

My tank:

Overflow box:

Sump drain:

Middle section with Chaeto and switches:

Water level and return pump:

ATO container with return line in background:

Return inside tank:

 

[nanojg]

Put the float switch in the return chamber. Also it's very dangerous to restrict the drain line unless you have a backup drain

 

[wbdevers]

Regardless if it's in the return chamber, again the level will only be affected as I described previously or unless I adjust either the drain side or return side valves (more/less water in/out).

Why do you say dangerous to restrict drain? My drain size is larger and than the pump outlet so it will actually pull more water down than will be pumped up (including headloss). I've got the pump open 99% and the drain open about 75%. This allows good flow and equalization in the sump.

 

[nanojg]

Your overflow, if it is set up properly, will only drain what the return pump pumps up. Restricting the drain pipe without a backup drain will result in a flood one of these days, I can guarantee that.

 

[nanojg]

What type of overflow do you have

 

[tmz]

I agree there is no need to restrict drain flow to match return flow. Drains should have more capacity than the return flow. The more the better.

 

[wbdevers]

I've got a Reef Octopus brand. I understand about needing a backup drain, but that's not possible since there is only one outlet. i guess in a way you just have to hope your siphon breaks work. I really don't have to worry about a critter getting in because of the screen (I know famous last words). My biggest concern is power loss and back siphon.

 

[nanojg]

Just try this and see if it works: open the drain line 100% and put the float valves in the return section of the sump. That is how it is supposed to work (absent a herbie (which I use) or a bean style drain)

 

[johnnyb05]

am i seeing the picture of your overflow box right. it looks like the water is more then an inch higher then edge of the box where the water actually goes over. if thats the case your pumping to much into the main tank for that box. also if you want to just keep on using two part for alk and cal use randys two part. i believe the #1 solution or mix where you bake the baking soda. it helps maintain higher ph. be careful with using a valve to backup the overflow box. you should really have a 2nd drain because it will backup eventually and you will have a mess. i use a gate valve for the backpressure to the box and a 2nd line. it works good ( no noise)

 

[wbdevers]

If I open the drain line valve all the way, it starts sucking air big time and sounds like a commercial toilet, which puts micro bubbles into the sump, then the pump, then back into the tank.

I still don't understand how the water level will EVER change in the sump--it has a constant supply of water from above. Obviously I'm missing something here.

johnnyb05, I'm not sure I follow your question, but I believe you are saying I need to raise the overflow box so that the water just flows over the lip. I did at first, but it seemed to cause the air sucking problems. I am going to try again and see if I can't get the flow correct. I'm using the B-Ionic right now and my alk and Ca+ is spot on. My problem has always been my pH (always low), hence my OP. I can't add a second drain but I'm not sure I follow your explanation of your setup.

I can say this--my next tank WILL BE DRILLED and reef ready. Man what a PITA this has been!