Kalk or Randy's 2 Part, or Both at same time?

[bozoreefer]

Hey guys

Straight to the point.

150-160 total volume/125 DT
1.024 salinity
pH ~ 8.1(night) - 8.2(day)
Calcium - 370
Alk - 6
Mag - 1200
Softies Tank - Currently have Euphyllia, Zoas, Mushrooms Leathers. Maybe SPS in the future.

I have all the supplies/ingredients for Randy's 2 part Recipe 1. I haven't dosed yet, but I will.

If I go the kalk route, Ill need to make a reactor for it.

If I go Randy's 2 part, Ill need to get a doser.

If I go both, Ill need to get a reactor + a doser.


What is the best route to go for my current goals? Im leaning towards Randy's 2 part for now. Im considering adding kalk to supplement Randy's but I have so much ingredient, I suppose it's not necessary. I can just up the dose from Randys 2 part depending on which element is low.

Opinions and advice are appreciated!

Thanks!

 

[bertoni]

If you choose Kalk, the tank might still need some 2-part, and the pH level already is okay. Kalk is cheap, though, and it leaves the SG unchanged over time. It's a personal choice. You could start with 2-part, and see what happens. Dosing by hand for a while should be okay, hopefully. Traveling might be an issue, though.

 

[richieii]

I would start dosing 2 part soon, alk is a little low for my liking

 

[Rybren]

You don't NEED a reactor for kalk. You could add it to your ATO and as long as your evaporation rate is high enough, it could provide enough to maintain your levels. Been doing it this way for 7 years.

 

[downbeach]

The first thing I would do, would be to get your SG up to 1.026, measured with a properly calibrated device, i.e. refractometer calibrated with a 35ppt solution(not water), etc. With that, you will see an increase in your Ca, Mg, and Alk too. After you've achieved that, and you still can't keep your numbers at recommended levels between WC's, I would add the kalk at ~ 1tsp. per gallon of water in the ATO and measure the affect. If it's not enough, you can go up to 2 tsp. per gallon. As your system grows, and the demand increases, and the fully saturated kalk(2tsp/gal) is no longer able to keep up, then I would start to add a two part to the dosing reginent along with the fully saturated limewater(kalk). Once you have to buy the necessary dosing pumps, I would suggest you get one for the kalk too, and go back to plain RO/DI in your ATO.

 

[tmz]

I agree increasing the sg will increase the calcium, alk and mag levels and I'd start there.

Personally, I prefer kalk as fully saturated limewater because of it's pH raising effect and self purifying quality and the absence of extra chloride in calcium chloride. I dose it from a still reservoir( brute garbage can in my case) via a timed peristaltic pump separate from top off but in preset daily amounts .

If needed , very rarely the case, for my heavy growth sps donimnant system, extra alk and calcium can be added with two part or via a calcium reactor.

 

[droog]

I agree increasing the sg will increase the calcium, alk and mag levels and I'd start there.

Personally, I prefer kalk as fully saturated limewater because of it's pH raising effect and self purifying quality and the absence of extra chloride in calcium chloride. I dose it from a still reservoir( brute garbage can in my case) via a timed peristaltic pump separate from top off but in preset daily amounts .

If needed , very rarely the case, for my heavy growth sps donimnant system, extra alk and calcium can be added with two part or via a calcium reactor.

This is the way to do kalk - decouple it from the rate of evaporation to keep dosing consistent year round. Your system is quite large though isn't it - how much Kalk do you dose this way? I think it will only work for people with a "fish room" or remote sump.

-droog

 

[tmz]

I dose 20 liters( about 5 gallons ) of fully saturated limewater per 24 hours to a 650 gallon system.

The pump I use , a litermeter 3 , can dose much smaller daily amounts(daily minimum is 50milileters; daily maximum is 99 liters) and dispenses the daily amount in 150 equal increments. one squirt vey 9 minutes or so.

It does take some space for the reservoir but the reservoir doesn't need to be very big ; as examples a 5 gallon reservoir(like a salt bucket) could handle a 100 gallon system for a bout a week in most cases.;two gallons could handle a 20gallon system for about a week.

 

[dkeller_nc]

With respect to the sp. gravity increase, going from 1.024 to 1.026 will increase your alkalinity to 6.5, your Ca to 400 and your Mg to 1300. It'd be best to start from there is DownBeach notes unless you have some compelling reason to want to keep the system at 1.024.

 

[bozoreefer]

If you choose Kalk, the tank might still need some 2-part, and the pH level already is okay. Kalk is cheap, though, and it leaves the SG unchanged over time. It's a personal choice. You could start with 2-part, and see what happens. Dosing by hand for a while should be okay, hopefully. Traveling might be an issue, though.

I would start dosing 2 part soon, alk is a little low for my liking

You don't NEED a reactor for kalk. You could add it to your ATO and as long as your evaporation rate is high enough, it could provide enough to maintain your levels. Been doing it this way for 7 years.

The first thing I would do, would be to get your SG up to 1.026, measured with a properly calibrated device, i.e. refractometer calibrated with a 35ppt solution(not water), etc. With that, you will see an increase in your Ca, Mg, and Alk too. After you've achieved that, and you still can't keep your numbers at recommended levels between WC's, I would add the kalk at ~ 1tsp. per gallon of water in the ATO and measure the affect. If it's not enough, you can go up to 2 tsp. per gallon. As your system grows, and the demand increases, and the fully saturated kalk(2tsp/gal) is no longer able to keep up, then I would start to add a two part to the dosing reginent along with the fully saturated limewater(kalk). Once you have to buy the necessary dosing pumps, I would suggest you get one for the kalk too, and go back to plain RO/DI in your ATO.

I agree increasing the sg will increase the calcium, alk and mag levels and I'd start there.

Personally, I prefer kalk as fully saturated limewater because of it's pH raising effect and self purifying quality and the absence of extra chloride in calcium chloride. I dose it from a still reservoir( brute garbage can in my case) via a timed peristaltic pump separate from top off but in preset daily amounts .

If needed , very rarely the case, for my heavy growth sps donimnant system, extra alk and calcium can be added with two part or via a calcium reactor.

With respect to the sp. gravity increase, going from 1.024 to 1.026 will increase your alkalinity to 6.5, your Ca to 400 and your Mg to 1300. It'd be best to start from there is DownBeach notes unless you have some compelling reason to want to keep the system at 1.024.

Hey guys sorry for the super late reply! Things got busy! I appreciate the responses!

Ill try to respond to each answer

bertoni, richieii - I've been testing everyday since I made this post and my levels have stayed constant at C:480 A:10.2 M:1110. Alk did go down maybe 0.5 dkh over the past 4-5 days. Maybe I would be wasting my time with 2 part? Maybe just doing water changes will be sufficient?


Rybren - I have a my mixing station in the back yard where I use a Stenner single head peristaltic pump to pump straight from the barrel into the sump. Its nice because there is no siphon. Bad is that I have to buy a reactor to put inline post peristaltic pump for kalk haha.


downbeach - Thanks for the advice. I will definitely get my salt up. Is there a salt you recommend? I'm trying to keep around ~450ppm, 8 dkh, and 1350ppm. According to my testing, my current livestock does not consume much of the calcium, if any at all. Ive been steady at 480 for the past 5 days. Alk has gone down 0.5 dkh in 5 days and its at 10.2 dkh. I recently increased Mag to 1300. My LPS (hammers) were doing terrible at 1110. I hope they get better with the increase in Mag. I think at this point maybe just water changes will do the job. Along with target feeding or broadcast.


tmz - Thanks for the input. Youre SPS dominant and using Kalk only? I'm still a noob but everyone ive spoken to with SPS dominant tanks uses at least 2 part? Thats pretty awesome that you're able to keep SPS with just kalk. I've posted my parameters for the last 5-6 days in the paragraphs above. Would you recommend just doing water changes to keep parameters steady? I'm capable of doing 1 gallon water changes a day. I have a dual head stenner peristaltic pump that can exchange 1 gallon in 45 minutes. I've got it all plumbed up, just need to fix the pump. Would you say this would be sufficient using maybe Red Sea Coral Pro salt? I'm planning on getting that salt if I go the 1 gallon per day changes. If my consumption goes up in the future (SPS, tons of coral), I think im going to just get IO salt and dose 2 part +/Kalk while still doing 1 gallon per day water changes.


dkeller_nc - Thanks for the response! No compelling reason at all. Just lazy haha. Im also just testing my ATO. I have a single head stenner perstaltic pump pump from a barrel in my back yard straight in to the sump. I'm just testing to see if my ATO programming, float switches, pump is keeping the SG at 1.024. I'm going to slowly raise it to 1.026 by just ATO with saltwater.



A wrap up form what I got from your responses:

1. Not enough live stock to dose due to low consumption.

2. Maybe water changes everyday (1 gallon) will do the job. Use good salt? Recommendations?

3. Question: Is this a good plan? Or am I just being lazy.


Thanks!

 

[dkeller_nc]

I'd suggest the progression mentioned by Downbeach. Water changes are generally insufficient to maintain water chemistry parameters unless you've a nano tank and are doing very large changes (some change up to 100%). This is true even without stony corals - coralline algae in the tank will generally be enough to deplete the water of alkalinity and calcium pretty quickly.

Because soft corals and some (easier) stony corals will tolerate relatively wide swings in alkalinity, simply mixing lime (kalkwasser) into RODI and pouring off the clear solution into your ATO will more than likely be enough to prevent your alkalinity from crashing until you wish to add more difficult stony corals like SPS.

At that point, it'd be best to switch back to RODI in the ATO and start 2-part dosing & Alk/Ca testing. SPS corals generally do quite poorly if the alkalinity in the tank water swings by more than 1 dKH over a couple of day's time, and that's quite possible with dosing kalk through an ATO because of changes in evaporation rate.

 

[bertoni]

I agree that water changes are likely to be a very expensive and time-consuming approach.

 

[tmz]

tmz - Thanks for the input. Youre SPS dominant and using Kalk only? I'm still a noob but everyone ive spoken to with SPS dominant tanks uses at least 2 part? Thats pretty awesome that you're able to keep SPS with just kalk.

Yes just kalk .

There are a number of few sps tanks running with kalk power. This thread has more:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2191454&highlight=kalk



I've posted my parameters for the last 5-6 days in the paragraphs above. Would you recommend just doing water changes to keep parameters steady? I'm capable of doing 1 gallon water changes a day.

I do recomend small routine water changes. I do 1% of water volume per day but not "just" water changes.

I have a dual head stenner peristaltic pump that can exchange 1 gallon in 45 minutes. I've got it all plumbed up, just need to fix the pump. Would you say this would be sufficient using maybe Red Sea Coral Pro salt? I'm planning on getting that salt if I go the 1 gallon per day changes.



Seems the idea is to use a high alk and calcium salt mix in lieu of dosing. Not my preference given the difficulty some have reported with high alk and calcium mixes in terms of constancy and mixing issues. I prefer to use a moderately priced salt mix with moderate alk and calcium levels like IO or Coralife for example. Then if the consumption surpasses what the salt is adding you can choose a supplementation scheme: two part, kalk , a calcium reactor or combinations based on your own proclivities.