Kalkwasser Powered Stony Tanks

2. I have this idea in my head that kalk keeps things stable even if dosed inconsistently (i.e. ATO). Can someone tell me how wrong or right I am?
thanks


That depends on how much top off your ato set up adds at once. Spreading the kalk and top off over the longest period of time practicable affords the most stability in alkalinity, calcium and specific gravity levels. Dosing more than 1/4 tsp of kalk, ie 16 ozs of fully saturated kalk water per 50 gallons of water volume in any given hour can spike ph and lead to precipitation of calcium carbonate which is anything but stable.

Kalk is calcium hydroxide. They disassociate in water. The oxide joins CO2 to make CO3, carbonate. Some of the CO3 becomes HCO3 bicarbonate. This pulls H out of the water making it less acidic, ie higher in ph. The calcium and bicarbonate are taken up by calcifying organisms and through biological processes the y are joined to form calcim carbonate. CaCO3( argonite/coral sketon, etc). When the ph in the tank water goes to 8.6 or so the calcium and carbonate simply join up a bioticly ,depleting each and leaving CaCO3 precipitant ,basically sand behind .
 
I agree with Tom. Way too often people just regurgitate things they hear as if it were fact. My tank is in its' infancy right now, and I have one Derasa clam that is approximately 6 -7 inches as well as 14 SPS frags.

I'm using is Kalkwasser through a Precision Marine KR60 reactor that's fed from a dosing pump in an RODI reservoir. A couple weeks ago I used a magnesium supplement to bump my levels over 1200 a bit. Right now I'm evaporating approximately 2 1/2 gallons per day in a 195 gallon tank, and I do weekly 20 gallon water changes with natural sea water collected at the edge of a jetty in Atlantic City during an incoming tide. My SPS are responding very, very well and there is more than nominal growth in the last 2 months since the frags were introduced. I have a dual chamber My Reef Creations CR6 calcium reactor in the garage that I plan on selling because of the same reasons Dan Rigle posted above. If I really need a little more evaporation so that I can keep things stable, I'll simply point the muffin fan in my canopy directly at the water's surface instead of blowing across the bottom edge of the halide reflectors like it does now. If that doesn't cut it, I'll add another fan.

I also want to state that too many people strive for unnatural levels in alkalinity, calcium and magnesium, and my personal feeling is that chasing means nothing if you can't keep it stable. When I first tested my natural seawater I got an alkalinity of 7.1, calcium of 400 and magnesium of 1210. These seem perfectly balanced to me, and I see no reason to mess with what mother nature provided for our animals as the've evolved over millions of years simply because others say so. I actually keep my parameters right where the seawater levels tested. ULNS tanks strive for these nsw parameters and some of them are out of this world. While I don't run a bacteria driven system, I see some of the benefits of these "lower than recommended" parameters in the coloration and growth I'm starting to get out of my frags. Kalkwasser has been a blessing for me, as it's easy, inexpensive and not as mystical as everyone makes it out to be once you try it. There is also some misinformation about it as well. People still say it precipitates phosphate, but Randy has clearly shown in the Chemistry forum that this has never been proven/demonstrated in any type of experiment; so maybe that rumor should stop as well.

If I ever need to "bump" any of these levels, maybe I'll get a dosing pump for alkalinity and calcium down the line, but there sure are a lot of nice, mature SPS tanks around that use nothing but Kalkwasser, so until I'm going to see how long I can go on just kalk.
 
Cause they dont. Once your Sps demand reaches a certain point the kalk never keeps up. Ask anyone with a fully stocked tank if they use only kalk and they always wind up using a reactor.

Ask me I fit the profile of anyone with a fully stocked sps tank , I doubt there are many tanks as heavily stocked with growing sps.
I don't make this stuff up.
Do you use a CaCO3 reactor? Have you tried limewater? Or are you simply repeating what you may heve read somewhere?I'm guessing you use two part via the bubble magnus dosing pump noted in your signature.
I think kalk limitations are overstated, and Ca CO3 Reactor limitations are understated . Some folks don't actually maximize the kalk dose over the course of the day ;often precipitation takes a toll with less than optimal dosing. Others just like to echo things without seeing for themselves and somehow they become common truisms which aren't completely true.

Like Dan, I used a Ca CO3 recator for years and had problems with alk consistency and ph even when dosing kalk with it and becme concerned about what was in the media being dissolving; not just PO4 but every substance including toxins the coral that made it may have stashed in it's bones. Keeping up with all the equipment , CO2 bottle, CO2 regulator, bubble flow, circulating pump, dosing pump,etc.was a pain and control over the actual dose was indirect at best. My calcium reactor works best for my system where it has been placed for the last3.5 years ,on the storage shelf.


Lol yeah dude I use to run a calcium reactor for about a year. Hey guess what I ran before that? Kalk. I'm not sure how much more kalk you could dissolve in water but I was at 2 teaspoon an gallon and my alk would never stay where I needed it. Yeah the calcium was good but alk never kept up. Don't ever call me a parrot, since you know nothing about me other then my sig.
 
I run all my top off through a Geo kalk reactor supplemented by two part.

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Here is mine from a few months back. I have been thinning out of my sps to make room for different and easier to care for corals. I dont have as much time to dedicate to the tank as I used to to keeping the sps 100% was becoming difficult. Tank is 100% powered by kalk top off.
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Cause they dont. Once your Sps demand reaches a certain point the kalk never keeps up. Ask anyone with a fully stocked tank if they use only kalk and they always wind up using a reactor.


Evaporation is one distinct limiting factor.Increase evap + add more lime water = solution

Just for $hitz and giggles,I quit dosing two part 6 days ago.
Increased evap by installing a (fairly strong)extra fan blowing across the sump,adjusted the dosing pump to keep the tank topped with the new evap rate and bingo.My alk has been at 8.7 dkh and rock solid for the last 4 days
calcium is 450 and Mg is stable at 1400.Maintained solely with lime.
The beauty of kalk(at least my source) is the mg stays in range and stable where as with Ca Rx and Two part,this needs constant attention to stay nice.
I will run it like this for a couple weeks then return back to the two part as some of the mineralization routine as I do believe using more then one source for mineral supplementation has many benefits.

so what you're saying is what I originally asked for in this thread is non-existent

It can exist and does.But is it the best method when dealing with a high energy Reef eco system with high daily alkalinity demands ?
 
I do believe using more then one source for mineral supplementation has many benefits

Were you supplementing your tank with 2 part when you were running the calcium reactor previously? Either way what proportion of your demand is/was/will be satisfied by 2 part?
 
Were you supplementing your tank with 2 part when you were running the calcium reactor previously? Either way what proportion of your demand is/was/will be satisfied by 2 part?


I was not using two part with the cal/rx but it was a bit tuff to keep the dkh in range without driving the reactor hard . the main aquarium suffered very low ph(7.4 to 7.8 ) and some funky bacteria/algae as a result.The winters are long here in PA and with the house being somewhat air tight for 6 or more months,the CO2 became a problem.This and the high PO4 readings I got when testing commercial reactor medias turned me off and I was ready to return to Kalk.

My dkh demand on this system is approx 2.5 to 3 dkh daily do if I was to do nothing for supplementation for 24 hours,my alk would fall from 9 dkh to 6 dkh.Previously,About 1/3 of that being done thru the two part and the remainder covered by Kalk until recently when I increased evap and the lime was sufficient.Problem with increasing evap is the humidity in the house so I will return back to using some two part after I satisfy my curiosity with this experiment and remove the added fan.
 
Thanks for the info. I'm over in Pittsburgh so I have a similar problem with increasing evaporation versus humidity especially this time of year. My sump is in the basement and during our long winters it's dry and evaporation actually helps but driving it higher during these hot humid stretches is causing some issues. I seem to be able to get 1.5-2 dKh from kalk without the fans and I've been debating between supersaturating the kalk with vinegar or just supplementing the rest with 2 part and a dosing pump.
 
Here is mine, the tank is finally settling in nicely. I started the tank in Feb and about 3 months ago switched to kalk. Tank is looking better than ever with awesome coral coloration.

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Dan and tmz thank you for your input, I have been battling low ph 7.65 to 7.9. I think I am going to try and increase evaporation now. My reactor has been a little rough (small recirc pump, not running well at lower ph, getting clogged blah blah...) so hopefully I can raise the ph in the reactor and then try and increase evaporation and have a better ph and a better running reactor. Funny how that has never been suggested to me before.

Also, so far anyone with a heavy Sps tank seems to be dosing some alk and such on top of the kalk. That is if I read the thread correctly.
 
You re welcome,

The mainstay for me is limewater.
Unitll a few months ago it was enough with only a small addition of baking soda once per week. It was fine with a heavy sps load for several years. Might still be ok but I like to keep the alk in the 9plus range and now it take 2 tbsppons per week for th 600 gallon system ,and at that rate balancing of the extra alk with calcium is needed too.



CO2 causes low ph It also often from the room air. Increased evporation could make it worse if the room air is low in CO2. A CO2 scrubber is helfpful ,ime.
 
You mean if the room air is high in co2 right? I am going to grab a small fan for the sump and see how it effects everything. I opened the windows for a few hours yesterday and the ph barely went up so I think I should be ok.
 
IME,using multiple sources for supplementing Alk,Ca,Mg has its advantages.

IMO, considering multiple sources gives you more room to meet the need for alk and calcium without adverse effects than any one method or to balance one against the other as is the case for ph with a CA CO3 reactor and limewater . For example:

Limewater is limited by the amount you can dose at any one time without spiking ph. In some tanks ph runs high ; in some, overdosing leads to a spike in alk calcium and ph with consequent precipitation and a loss of alk and calcium;

calcium chloride adds chloride and over time may skew the chloride to sulfate ratio; some commercial buffers may contain more borate than is desired( not so baking soda);

CACO3 reactors can only produce so much CA and CO3 without dropping the reactor ph and increasing effluent point to a point where the end product effluent drops the tanks ph to an undesireable level. Depending on th quality of the media used ,they may contribute impurities but do add a some useful magnesium which limewater doesn't.
 
CACO3 reactors can only produce so much CA and CO3 without dropping the reactor ph and increasing effluent point to a point where the end product effluent drops the tanks ph to an undesireable level. Depending on th quality of the media used ,they may contribute impurities but do add a some useful magnesium which limewater doesn't.

No disrespect but I have to partially disagree with your statement
Below is a quote fro RHF on Mg in lime

"What Else Is In Limewater Besides Calcium And Hydroxide? Mg++ and Sr++

As discussed above, solid lime can contain considerable material in addition to calcium and hydroxide. In particular, most grades allow a significant amount of magnesium and alkali salts (which include sodium, potassium, and lithium)".
 
None taken.

Didn't see that article. Who wrote it?

In any case , those things in solid lime noted in your post precipitate out in fully saturated lime water as a result of the high ph effect on their solubility and via co co precipitation as the bind to other precipitating crystals . So , the lime water you dose doesn't contain them even though the solid lime likely does contain some of them at relatively low levels even in food grade lime.

I stayed off the finer points on purification for the sake of a readable post or would have explained this earlier.
If food grade lime is used and the slurry is not dosed there should not be any significant metal impurity in the limewater and no magnesium . It sheds them via high ph and/or co precipitation as they bind to other crystals..

Only a few metals have significant amphoteric solubility, ie solubility increases at low and high ph values. Most hit the bottom of the curve and stay thereabouts.
The notable exceptions in the 12+ph range would be lead, chromium and zinc.
However, the purification involves not only ph related precipitation but co precipitaiton, ie , binding with carbonate and other precipitants.

Here are two links which shed a little more light on this for those inclined toward the more technical aspects. The first includes the solubility curve for most metals and the second by Randy H Farely lays out the processes and elements involved lime water's purifying processes with a special emphasis on the very lethal Cu, free copper and the absence of magnesium :

http://www.hoffland.net/hydroxide-precipitation.html

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2003/5/chemistry

This chart is from Randy's article:


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Note maganesium's solubility is 10 to the minus 3 or 4 th power at 12.4 ph. It just can't be in solution at that ph.

This is also from Randy's article:

"....Regardless of how much magnesium is present in the limewater to begin with, it will nearly all precipitate from solution, and clear limewater is not a source of magnesium for an aquarium...."
 

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