Karim's 1500gal dream reef

karimwassef said:
Thanks... I am a little fanatic about planning ahead... years ahead and now almost a decade ahead... I just need to be flexible and roll with changes as they come up :)

I did consider cinder blocks. One of my college reef tanks was on concrete blocks so I know that they weather well :) ... lots of learning during those days.

I wanted a storage space under the tank. I'm constantly struggling with hideaways to put ladders and stools and nets and tongs and all other kinds of equipment. It might seem trivial but if I have ANY hope of getting my wife to consider the greenhouse a "family space", I need to keep it clean (it's just wet seaweed & some coral skeleton...), ventilated (smells matter apparently), quiet (the words "toilet flushing" come up), and organized (no ladders or platforms in view).

For this large of a peninsula tank, I'll need a 12 foot "catwalk" scaffold... that has to go somewhere!!!

I've also built in wooden ledges that flip up or down on the sides with hidden studs that can be pulled out and locked into position to create an immediately available mini-scaffold for those easy access jobs. That's what you see on the right of this image from below:

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/Designs/0_zpsr6m4rrgc.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/Designs/0_zpsr6m4rrgc.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 0_zpsr6m4rrgc.jpg"/></a>

The other side shows those pull-our stud bases hidden away under the tank.

Could I do the same with concrete? Probably but I think wood is easier to work with and just as strong. The storage space under a 9' x 8' tank without any equipment below was just too sweet of an opportunity to miss.

I'll give concrete blocks another look but I wonder how many I'd need to support the double stack 3/4" plywood base. I'd think one concrete leg every 4' ? I don't want both concrete and wood joists.. too much work.
Click to expand...

Sounds like your fish room needs a walk in closet for equipment, that and some sort of gantry crane :). One of these days I want to do a spoof of the scene in Mission Impossible where Cruise lowers from the ventilation shaft to the computer, but with a snorkel and a fish tank. I'm thinking your tank could be that spot.

All kidding aside, I like the wood legs, but I would consider sistering up the 2x6's or altering the angle. I don't see them tilting and falling over, but I' am slightly nervous seeing them all in the same direction. (Edit, you might already have them braced, this bottom view is messing with my head a bit)

Going back to the scaffolding, is there some way to make them fit a theme? My first thought was beach theme with the scaffolding being done up like a life guard's tower. Of course that makes no sense in Dallas overlooking a grassy yard, but you get the idea.
 
I have proposed themes like that before.. My first idea was to have a sand floor - basically 6" of sand over the concrete in a giant sand box configuration in the greenhouse. She shot that down with the "who's going to clean the sand you track into the house" and "we'll never go out there again"...

The girls looked more optimistic, but they have no vote in this :D
 
The wood legs are all in a U configuration now. two sistered with a gap and one across. All the center post 2x6s are also in the opposite direction of the majority. I'll take some build up images of the base as it is before transitioning to the concrete option
 
<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/Designs/1_zpsblf60d86.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/Designs/1_zpsblf60d86.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 1_zpsblf60d86.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/Designs/2_zpseui19tjt.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/Designs/2_zpseui19tjt.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 2_zpseui19tjt.jpg"/></a>

that's the main frame. Here are the hidden structures that create the supports for the mini-scaffolding

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/Designs/3_zpsvzlnmwff.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/Designs/3_zpsvzlnmwff.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 3_zpsvzlnmwff.jpg"/></a>

they fit between the legs

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/Designs/4_zpssjzdr8ak.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/Designs/4_zpssjzdr8ak.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 4_zpssjzdr8ak.jpg"/></a>

I might start with a plywood floor but I would have to cut grooves for the mini-scaffold legs to fit into.

Here's the top of the stand = bottom of the tank made up for 4 layers of 3/4" plywood... one of the advantages of a a cheap medium is that I can quadruple it up.

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/Designs/5_zpsc9spqkid.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/Designs/5_zpsc9spqkid.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 5_zpsc9spqkid.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/Designs/6_zps5qzqnpuj.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/Designs/6_zps5qzqnpuj.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 6_zps5qzqnpuj.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/Designs/7_zpskrebnpwr.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/Designs/7_zpskrebnpwr.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 7_zpskrebnpwr.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/Designs/8_zps6axzqsiz.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/Designs/8_zps6axzqsiz.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 8_zps6axzqsiz.jpg"/></a>

and then the epoxy which I expect to be ~1/4" thick

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/Designs/9_zpsj8gjeuur.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/Designs/9_zpsj8gjeuur.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 9_zpsj8gjeuur.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/Designs/10_zpsoybhbdql.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/Designs/10_zpsoybhbdql.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 10_zpsoybhbdql.jpg"/></a>
 
the glass can seat in the groove and the plywood "skin" side panels would go up 2" over the bottom of the glass.

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/Designs/11_zpsk79xvbew.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/Designs/11_zpsk79xvbew.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 11_zpsk79xvbew.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/Designs/12_zpshlpbxxgc.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/Designs/12_zpshlpbxxgc.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 12_zpshlpbxxgc.jpg"/></a>

practically, I'll attach the side plywood with screws only, then lower the glass and clamp it in place at the top seated in the groove. Then I'll unclamp each side, raise it (needs 4-5 people), apply the silicone into the groove, then lower and clamp one side of it while releasing the next plane of glass to do the same... until all four sides are seated and siliconed.
 
and speaking of "impossible mission"... I have a thread like that

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2409206&highlight=suspended

karimwassef said:
The catwalks and platforms are great ideas but they don't work for my geometry. Here's a view of a model standing on a platform - the upper arm length is wasted getting over the plumbing leaving only about 16" for in tank:

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/4498AC40-8CE0-4047-9836-D44D27181C66_zpsfmr5dbco.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/4498AC40-8CE0-4047-9836-D44D27181C66_zpsfmr5dbco.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 4498AC40-8CE0-4047-9836-D44D27181C66_zpsfmr5dbco.jpg"/></a>

Here's an approximation of lying down overhanging the plumbing:

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/283FDC0C-6077-454A-B8EE-8B557AB519A3_zpsesffianv.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/283FDC0C-6077-454A-B8EE-8B557AB519A3_zpsesffianv.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 283FDC0C-6077-454A-B8EE-8B557AB519A3_zpsesffianv.jpg"/></a>

That gives me 26" of access in the tank.
Click to expand...

this was the idea in my current tank, but I never had the guts to do it.. I do weigh 220lbs, so.... not Tom Cruise.
 
here's the glass detail.. the color code is for different thicknesses, the green is 1", the light green is 3/4" and the blue is 1/2"

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/Designs/q1_zpsqrweloqz.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/Designs/q1_zpsqrweloqz.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo q1_zpsqrweloqz.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/Designs/q4_zpsds3fwhfj.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/Designs/q4_zpsds3fwhfj.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo q4_zpsds3fwhfj.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/Designs/q2_zpsznmx9gpw.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/Designs/q2_zpsznmx9gpw.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo q2_zpsznmx9gpw.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/Designs/q3_zps8xkwdkbl.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/Designs/q3_zps8xkwdkbl.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo q3_zps8xkwdkbl.jpg"/></a>
 
Something for you to consider:
I've moved several things (including fish tanks) that involved putting 6 people around something, then carrying it in a precarious manner. I've also failed to get a tank off the ground with 14.
I've spent some time moving around machinery, which often is bulky, top heavy, and *very* heavy in a small space. Something that movers often bring up is this: If you need more than two people to move anything, you should consider if you are doing it in a safe and efficient manner.

Personally I would want to have the glass panels suspended or otherwise supported before gluing, I would not want to use 4 people to wrestle them in to place. I'm willing to be one of those four people, but I'm betting there is a better way.

On that note, I have a chain hoist if you need to borrow it. I know it will move a 2000 lbf object, so it should be able to handle a sheet of glass. The harder question is where to hang it from.

Also, I'm aware that it cuts down on storage space, but I still thing you should move half of your plywood skin to the bottom of the 2x6 supports. It will make the platform both stronger and stiffer.
 
Thanks! I've calculated the weight of the glass. The heaviest piece will be the 1" glass on the back. It's also the shortest at 7'10" so it will be the most difficult.

It weighs 260lb. With 6 people, that's ~45 lbs a person - hard, but not dangerous. In college, I used to curl 35lbs per arm (good old days).. so I count 70lbs as my personal max. That gives each of us 18" of handling room with glass suction cups.

image_25543.jpg


The longer 3/4" pieces weigh 220lbs and should be more manageable.

I think a hoist is a good option and appreciate the offer. :)

The more difficult hoist will be the delivery of the glass from the local freight. They'll use a fork lift to load it into the bed of the truck, but unloading it will be interesting.

I've used the manual fork lifts but they need a massive counterweight to work well.

MAFO1050_a_c.jpg
 
here's a link to my current tank being positioned with a hydraulic lift

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2229274&highlight=cut+out+options&page=4

karimwassef said:
It's here. Rented a u-haul and picked it up at the freight terminal. Came in on a 9' palette and 6' tall box. 950lbs... that's 50% heavier than I was expecting...

<a href="http://s1062.beta.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/8-1.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/8-1.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"/></a>

Also rented a manual crank material lift (1000lb capable).

<a href="http://s1062.beta.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/10-1.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/10-1.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"/></a>

too tall to fit in the garage so unpacked outside

<a href="http://s1062.beta.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/13.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/13.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"/></a>

<a href="http://s1062.beta.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/14.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/14.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"/></a>

One hour later and with 5 people... we're in!

<a href="http://s1062.beta.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/16.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/16.jpg" border="0" alt="16"/></a>
Click to expand...
 
ok.. concrete:

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/Designs/w1_zpsrece05do.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/Designs/w1_zpsrece05do.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo w1_zpsrece05do.jpg"/></a>

one problem is that I dont have the side studs to attach the plywood skin and lip to.

I could inset the concrete by 1.5" and create a 2x6 stud edge all the way around. I'd do the same on the concrete floor (glued down) and use the top and bottom to "skin" the base with the 3/4" plywood (including the 2" lip to hold the glass).

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/Designs/w2_zpspuxuitip.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/Designs/w2_zpspuxuitip.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo w2_zpspuxuitip.jpg"/></a>
 
so the concrete design evolves...

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/Designs/W3_zpshrdqfxeq.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/Designs/W3_zpshrdqfxeq.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo W3_zpshrdqfxeq.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/Designs/W4_zpsrwhbjhtb.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/Designs/W4_zpsrwhbjhtb.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo W4_zpsrwhbjhtb.jpg"/></a>

but now the 2x6s are too wide and consume too much of the "access" to the sub-tank storage... so going to 2x4s + cutting the bottom sections back + re-orienting the concrete blocks to give more room (same count).

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/Designs/w5_zpsbzkbxfxw.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/Designs/w5_zpsbzkbxfxw.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo w5_zpsbzkbxfxw.jpg"/></a>

now I can still have two supports for my mini-scaffolds.
 
you know.. until this point, the base was at least a classic stud and plywood base...

now, it's a hybrid concrete block, stud and plywood...

the tank was a pure glass tank

now, it's a hybrid plywood, epoxy, and glass tank with PVC covers for the access hatches

is everything in this tank a hybrid? :D

but I blame it all on you all (you'all = it's a texan thing) and your creative ideas!
 
we are just trying to help ;) and maybe give more ideas to those whi will follow in your foot steps. This tank is one small step for karim. but one giant leap for karim kind. haha couldn't help myself.
you will be happy you thought of every angle in the end. plus now the kids have a new hiding place for hide and gi seek.
you can still use wood if you prefer just use post wood instead on the legs may be easier than nailing all those boards together. looks great Karim. keep living the dream for us :)
 
karimwassef said:
Thanks! I've calculated the weight of the glass. The heaviest piece will be the 1" glass on the back. It's also the shortest at 7'10" so it will be the most difficult.

It weighs 260lb. With 6 people, that's ~45 lbs a person - hard, but not dangerous. In college, I used to curl 35lbs per arm (good old days).. so I count 70lbs as my personal max. That gives each of us 18" of handling room with glass suction cups.

< snip >

The longer 3/4" pieces weigh 220lbs and should be more manageable.

I think a hoist is a good option and appreciate the offer. :)

The more difficult hoist will be the delivery of the glass from the local freight. They'll use a fork lift to load it into the bed of the truck, but unloading it will be interesting.

I've used the manual fork lifts but they need a massive counterweight to work well.

< snip >
Click to expand...

If you can fit the legs under the stand an engine hoist/cherry picker will solve your counterweight issues. Not sure how tall those get, but I'm guessing it would work.

Also, my rant against the HF suction cups is typed up and not submitted on another computer, so you'll have to live another day in suspense waiting for that.
 
Have you figured out the crush strength on the cinder blocks? I don't know it off the top of my head. I have seen some rather impressive sudden failures of cinder blocks, but they generally involved cars and point loads. They do make buildings out of them, so I'm sure the properties are reasonably well known.
 
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