Karim's 1500gal dream reef

[jccaclimber]

Edit to the above, I am also assuming the rest of the chiller system (frame, etc.) is going to be resistant to rust.

It is an interesting question though. What is typical for industrial systems is not typical for smaller scale systems. There must be some reason.

I also remember a professor from undergrad mentioning a 60's or 70's car that only had overheating issues when the A/C was on. His explanation of the dealer fix sounded a lot like taking the condensation from the evap. coil in the car and pumping it back over either the condensing coil or vehicle radiator (don't remember which off hand).

 

[jccaclimber]

ok. so based on talking to some tank builders and special thanks to Felix from Reef Savvy, I've made some changes...

First, The tank is now only 30" tall. That's 18" above the false floor and 12" below.

Didn't want to pay the cost of increased glass thickness or another issue?

2. All the visible sides are going to be 3/4" Starphire. The bottom is 3/4" glass and the back is 1" glass.

Why the back thicker than the front? I assume concern over the holes near the edge, although it would be interesting to see if this is actually a weak point.

3. The overflow is wider and a regular rectangle now. It's also pulled all the way back to reduce the run to the sump.

4. The portals to the space under the false floor are acrylic or PVC and have PVC pipe structures under them to transfer the weight down to the real floor.

5. I'm also considering making more of these 2" PVC pipe "cubes" with drilled holes in them and pushing them down into cavern zone to support the false floor better.

6. The cooling coils are titanium, not PEX or PVC.

How do you plan to do the joints?

7. For highest accessibility. I'm going to use 3 x 3/4" PVC planks @ 7.25" x 12' long on a scaffold that goes across the tank top. I've worked it out with dummies to make sure I can reach every part of the tank. If necessary, the portals should be able to hold my weight. The glass bottom is 3/4" but it's sitting on 3/4" acrylic and 3/4" plywood supported by 2x4 studs.

1) Why 3/4 acrylic under the glass opposed to double layering the glass (possibly including a 2 part adhesive that will cure without air exposure)? That acrylic sheet is probably going to cost more than the glass sheet. The bottom on my 170 is 1" glass with 1/4" softer plastic (feels like PE, but guessing it's not since it is bonded on. Maybe nylon?). It was good enough for AGE so I assume there was some thought behind it.
2) Consider a layer of plywood under the 2x4 studs as well as above. Makes it hard to get in the space between the studs, but greatly increases the bending strength of the box. Alternately just use a lot of posts which I assume you are doing anyways.
3)

8. I'd adding a second floor attic space for the water storage and to have a dedicated area for the surge. This is better than having a platform since it'll be directly supported on 2x12s.

9. The sump is now in a cutout in the concrete of the slab with a 3/4" plywood cover ...

10. The sump has a concrete catch all around so any dirt falls into that section rather than the sump... I can see myself walking in with muddy feet... this is a 2" channel that protects the sump from the rest of the concrete floor. This section runs to a drain on the side.

11. The sump still has the settling loop and separate outputs for dirty and clean water. There's a separate section for water exchange without stopping the tank loop. This is really the water change region at ~100 gallons to allow for an automated and remote water change option.

12. I've also spaced out the 8 bulkheads in the back of the tank... this went along with increasing the glass thickness to 1" to make it all safer.

Answers my question from above.

13. The flow chambers in the back are now composed of 4 acrylic wall sections that slide into grooves made of glass strips. There's a plastic cover that is held watertight with plastic screws through the holes in the glass sections. The powerheads are held in place with eggcrate and zip ties.

Seems like a good idea for the flow chambers.

 

[karimwassef]

Starphire isn't available thicker than 3/4"... that walks me down to a 30" max height.

 

[karimwassef]

The 8 holes at ~3" all in a row at the bottom edge of the back wall is a concern... so 1" green glass reduces the risk.

 

[karimwassef]

The titanium to PVC joints?

I found that 1/2" titanium tubing makes a very tight fit with 1/2" hose with a compression hose clamp.

 

[karimwassef]

The bottom is by far the most expensive part of this build. It's 9' x 8'

I didn't check the price but I was concerned about the cost of 1" glass or 2 x 3/4" glass. I need at least one sheet of 3/4" to bond to the sides properly. To reinforce the bottom, I thought acrylic would be cheaper (not validated) and could absorb more stress due to imperfections in the plywood.

There are no 9' x 8' plywood sheets so this would be composed of multiple boards on several studs. I'll put plywood below too - good idea!

Now that I'm experimenting with PVC board, maybe I'll use that instead of the acrylic.

 

[karimwassef]

http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com...g-mist-your-air-conditioner-answer-high-bills

Excellent article on misting HVAC coils... I think if it's a DIY ~$50 and I need to extract a lot more heat, it would be useful.

 

[jccaclimber]

Starphire isn't available thicker than 3/4"... that walks me down to a 30" max height.

What about 29.75" viewable with a non glass 6" section at the bottom? You did mention wanting to do a dissimilar material tank. The bottom few inches of sand and such isn't all that important to look at anyways and then you would have the same internal space to work with.

 

[jccaclimber]

The titanium to PVC joints?

I found that 1/2" titanium tubing makes a very tight fit with 1/2" hose with a compression hose clamp.

Make sure all of the parts in the hose clamps you use are stainless. I've seen several labeled as stainless where just the band was, not the screw and housing.

 

[jccaclimber]

The bottom is by far the most expensive part of this build. It's 9' x 8'

I didn't check the price but I was concerned about the cost of 1" glass or 2 x 3/4" glass. I need at least one sheet of 3/4" to bond to the sides properly. To reinforce the bottom, I thought acrylic would be cheaper (not validated) and could absorb more stress due to imperfections in the plywood.

There are no 9' x 8' plywood sheets so this would be composed of multiple boards on several studs. I'll put plywood below too - good idea!

Now that I'm experimenting with PVC board, maybe I'll use that instead of the acrylic.

I'll bet 1" glass is cheaper than two sheets of 3/4" glass which is cheaper than 3/4" glass plus 3/4" acrylic. Plus bonding acrylic to glass is generally a losing battle long term. I'm not sure about PVC to glass. Most if not all PVC bottom tanks she a mechanical means such as a slot or lip to aid the joint. I like foam for under non-plastic rimmed tanks followed by a solid base. Even better if you can pre-stress the wooden box section.

 

[jccaclimber]

I lost item 3 from a couple posts ago. I'm concerned 3/4" PVC planks at that length may be insufficient, although I haven't run the beam bending calcs yet. Aluminum box sections would be my first choice, although a box section of another material like PVC may be sufficient as well.

 

[karimwassef]

What about 29.75" viewable with a non glass 6" section at the bottom? You did mention wanting to do a dissimilar material tank. The bottom few inches of sand and such isn't all that important to look at anyways and then you would have the same internal space to work with.

Dissimilar materials for the mock tank - yes...

The main tank is where I'm risk averse...

 

[karimwassef]

Make sure all of the parts in the hose clamps you use are stainless. I've seen several labeled as stainless where just the band was, not the screw and housing.

Good point. I actually found that two black zip ties work well too

 

[karimwassef]

I'll bet 1" glass is cheaper than two sheets of 3/4" glass which is cheaper than 3/4" glass plus 3/4" acrylic. Plus bonding acrylic to glass is generally a losing battle long term. I'm not sure about PVC to glass. Most if not all PVC bottom tanks she a mechanical means such as a slot or lip to aid the joint. I like foam for under non-plastic rimmed tanks followed by a solid base. Even better if you can pre-stress the wooden box section.

I wasn't planning on attaching the glass to the acrylic. Just glass on top of acrylic.

Felix's recommendation was to use 1" instead of 2 x 3/4" (even though it's more expensive) & then brace the bottom edge with a metal frame.

 

[karimwassef]

I lost item 3 from a couple posts ago. I'm concerned 3/4" PVC planks at that length may be insufficient, although I haven't run the beam bending calcs yet. Aluminum box sections would be my first choice, although a box section of another material like PVC may be sufficient as well.

You mean for the "catwalk" for accessibility or the scale tank?

 

[jccaclimber]

Good point. I actually found that two black zip ties work well too

Are these joints going to be accessible after the slab and tank are in? I've found that zip ties get brittle and fail in many cases after 5-10 years. I'm not sure I'd trust them for a permanent and inaccessible application.

I wasn't planning on attaching the glass to the acrylic. Just glass on top of acrylic.

Felix's recommendation was to use 1" instead of 2 x 3/4" (even though it's more expensive) & then brace the bottom edge with a metal frame.

I'm with Felix on this one. I can see some benefits of 1" over 2x 3/4", I'm surprised it's more expensive, maybe an odd thickness? I'd take either of those over 3/4" on a 3/4" unattached pad. What do you hope to gain putting a 3/4" unattached acrylic pad under the tank? Not saying it is a bad idea, but I think there may be better solutions for your specific goal.

You mean for the "catwalk" for accessibility or the scale tank?

I was referring to the catwalk/scaffold structure.

 

[karimwassef]

They'll be accessible in a cistern... not so in a concrete block.

But a leak inside a concrete block may not matter? Might coat the concrete with rubber?

 

[karimwassef]

3/4 glass on 3/4 acrylic was to go cheaper without compromising safety. I'd like to walk in this tank

 

[karimwassef]

I'd really like to create a gated open surface algae zone where fish are allowed to graze by day - no hiding space - for a few days a week. They would be returned to the reef at other times. Kind of like a shepherd with sheep. This could be automated so I don't have to manually move algae into the reef as I do today.

Just an idea - don't know how that would be implementable.

 

[dave.m]

If you wanted your algae base to be in a separate tank you could have a passage maybe 6-8" tall by the same wide that would connect at the top of the display tank into the algae tank. Then you could devise an automated gate between the two. I don't know how you'd automate the fish to leave the algae tank on command, however. Training regime, perhaps.

Dave.M