Karim's 1500gal dream reef

[karimwassef]

ok.. now it's your turn to shoot holes in my bad ideas.

ACTUATOR:
<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/Designs/1_zpsamvhgldn.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/Designs/1_zpsamvhgldn.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 1_zpsamvhgldn.jpg"/></a>

UP:
<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/Designs/3_zpsbpik8iia.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/Designs/3_zpsbpik8iia.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 3_zpsbpik8iia.jpg"/></a>

DOWN:
<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/Designs/2_zpshzk9ltyo.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/Designs/2_zpshzk9ltyo.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 2_zpshzk9ltyo.jpg"/></a>

 

[karimwassef]

The arms are 1" x 0.25" rectangular steel shafts mounted vertically to minimize bending. I can cover them with PVC pipe and seal for corrosion.

 

[karimwassef]

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2509674&highlight=actuator

About a year and a half ago, I posted my design for a cheap actuated PVC valve using a repair extension. I use these on my 100g surge and run from my Apex 10V channels through a DIY relay board.

Since the top and bottom and constantly submerged and no vortex can form, the surge is bubble free and the pipes and continuously primed.

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/E1B84615-5132-47D9-A52A-8FA8E59B9F95_zpsjlojrgzu.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/E1B84615-5132-47D9-A52A-8FA8E59B9F95_zpsjlojrgzu.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo E1B84615-5132-47D9-A52A-8FA8E59B9F95_zpsjlojrgzu.jpg"/></a>

The concern was the long term viability of these valves with continuous use.

I have two calves and they run during the day on a schedule. When active, they surge every 5 minutes or so. So about 50x per day for 6 days a week ~ 23K operations (in + out). Saturday is calm day.

One valve has no issues, but the other one had a very slow drip. The one with the drip was a little off center so I think it was uneven wear on the two o rings inside.

I had designed it to be serviceable and this was the moment of truth...

I removed the actuator and clamps

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/52A1B9A9-6A28-409F-9F2D-D27E607C8077_zpsjwiv2vqf.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/52A1B9A9-6A28-409F-9F2D-D27E607C8077_zpsjwiv2vqf.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 52A1B9A9-6A28-409F-9F2D-D27E607C8077_zpsjwiv2vqf.jpg"/></a>

Inspected the shaft

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/08B4913F-C477-47CF-B375-8F94F715D26E_zpsdyzrnvgg.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/08B4913F-C477-47CF-B375-8F94F715D26E_zpsdyzrnvgg.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 08B4913F-C477-47CF-B375-8F94F715D26E_zpsdyzrnvgg.jpg"/></a>

The PVC plunger looked ok and moved freely but leaked a couple of drops.

Then I unscrewed the extension assembly and disconnected the inside shaft.

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/A88EB040-DE8A-4DB4-9BAD-749942E45C56_zpsqj8dedgz.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/A88EB040-DE8A-4DB4-9BAD-749942E45C56_zpsqj8dedgz.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo A88EB040-DE8A-4DB4-9BAD-749942E45C56_zpsqj8dedgz.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/AF165DB6-2F0B-4059-9E6C-1DC3AE34C561_zpsro9btzgj.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/AF165DB6-2F0B-4059-9E6C-1DC3AE34C561_zpsro9btzgj.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo AF165DB6-2F0B-4059-9E6C-1DC3AE34C561_zpsro9btzgj.jpg"/></a>

That was fine too.

I removed the extension plunger with the o rings. This is the part I expected to service.

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/EC37308F-36DD-4A5D-9A19-93AEF503AC8F_zpsxxk9spr3.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/EC37308F-36DD-4A5D-9A19-93AEF503AC8F_zpsxxk9spr3.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo EC37308F-36DD-4A5D-9A19-93AEF503AC8F_zpsxxk9spr3.jpg"/></a>

There are fine scratches in the rubber on one side.

Replaced it with a new one ($4 from Lowe's) and reassembled the actuator (1 screw, 3 large hose clamps).

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/63303D52-1111-4A05-B9EC-230ADB26C25D_zpswyq3tvia.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/63303D52-1111-4A05-B9EC-230ADB26C25D_zpswyq3tvia.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 63303D52-1111-4A05-B9EC-230ADB26C25D_zpswyq3tvia.jpg"/></a>

Running for 24hrs good as new.



Just felt like sharing - DIY is only good if it lasts.

 

[karimwassef]

I would love to do this with air only... the simplicity of just having a bubble of air raise and lower the overflow is just so beautifully simple... I still think the straight extenders are best suited, but to couple that with a controllable flotation overflow.. yowza!

 

[karimwassef]

I am also very uncomfortable with the 6' moment arm bending the 1" stainless steel enough to jam the mechanism in the tank... even doubling up or using I-beam structures... it's so clunky.

 

[karimwassef]

I am also very uncomfortable with the 6' moment arm bending the 1" stainless steel enough to jam the mechanism in the tank... even doubling up or using I-beam structures... it's so clunky.

 

[karimwassef]

I can see how I can pump air in to raise it...
<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/Designs/0_zpsqbzw7bbu.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/Designs/0_zpsqbzw7bbu.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 0_zpsqbzw7bbu.jpg"/></a>

but without a vaccum to suck the air back out, I'm not sure how to lower it... I guess I could use a vaccum compressor and calibrate both the injecting air pump and vaccum...

 

[karimwassef]

My 10 yr old has a school project that gave me an idea... rope and pulley!

What if the platform was on a permanently sealed air pocket (acrylic box) so very buoyant all the time... at 3" x 8" x 48", that's good lift.

Then a pulley UNDER the rig connected to other pulleys outside the tank to the back room.. now, an actuator pulls or releases the rope by 3" and the whole thing goes up or down and controlled. Invisible except for the rope

The air pocket is just acting as a reset spring.

Nylon wire or even nylon encased steel wire?

PVC pulleys...

I think that could work.

 

[karimwassef]

This even allows for a passive failsafe since its zero state is UP (buoyant). That means that an electromagnetic lock on the wire would basically release the wire in case on an outtage... buoyancy takes over, overflow rises.. all good!

 

[karimwassef]

In theory I could run the wire (or rope) down through the overflow piping itself... not sure about the wear and tear after months or years of operation but that would render the entire system completely invisible.

It could interfere with draining though... hmmm add one more overflow dedicated to the rope? Not much room left!

 

[Darthv247]

may be better to just stick with your original surge only idea. Corals and fish will be happy either way not all reefs have tidal exposure. so may even be detrimental to some species. plus less stress on your tank and yourself.

 

[karimwassef]

There is always the option to not use it, but not designing it in means I can't learn by experimenting...

Nope, I'll do the learning part and then decide if it's worth keeping. If I just create a rigid overflow now, the movable one is much harder to do later.

 

[McPuff]

may be better to just stick with your original surge only idea. Corals and fish will be happy either way not all reefs have tidal exposure. so may even be detrimental to some species. plus less stress on your tank and yourself.

Not only that, but you've already got a massively complicated system in progress. The addition of a tide seems like even more points of failure. What about trying out the ideas on small systems first to see if you can "perfect" it? Truthfully, the surges are going to be the draw. The tide is a cool concept but I'm not sure how great it would look.

 

[karimwassef]

You mean how the actual low tide water would look or how the mechanicals would look?

 

[karimwassef]

I'm going to build a mock system to experiment, just like I did with the surge I'm using today (also controversial when started)

 

[jccaclimber]

I like always full with a cord to pull it down. There are plenty of plastic wire rope options you could run over some pulleys. I'd take that over stainless, although plastic coating might not hurt so that you don't have salt water wicking up the line. You can get titanium cable pretty easily, but the price tag is ugly. Something like an aramid (Kevlar) thread would also be strong, and isn't particularly expensive.

The other option, although you need a position readout, would be to have something engage a clamp when the overflow starts to rise. I'm not sure if an unrestrained overflow bobbing around during a surge would be an issue or not. Proper cord configuration should minimize bobbing.

As you mentioned pushing air into a chamber is easy. Taking air back out of a chamber isn't much harder. You just need a line coming out of the top connected to a solenoid. Open that and the air bleeds out with water filling from the bottom.

 

[karimwassef]

Thanks. I think my ability to control the actuator by 3" is much better than my ability to actuate a solenoid to release air to drop an accurate length.

The pedestal will have three pipes = three extending legs

That should yield a smooth self leveling platform

 

[jccaclimber]

What sort of force does it take to slide those pipes?

 

[karimwassef]

Actually, using the weir calculation:
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/weirs-flow-rate-d_592.html

gph ~ 180 x w x h^1.5

with w is width in inches and h is head in inches.

The weir is two sides at 4' so ~ 96"

Normal operation at 1" head would be 17,000 gph
At 1/2" head ~ 6000 gph.

I don't remember that 2" PVC can carry in full siphon (need to dig that up)

With a 3" head (assuming a sudden drop and the drains can actually pull), the flow would be 90,000 gph. I'll have to put some hefty eggcrate to avoid fish and snail getting sucked down... maybe a Pavlovian whistle so they know it's coming.. shake the platform slightly three times before the surge pull.

 

[karimwassef]

What sort of force does it take to slide those pipes?

I can do it without much effort unless they haven't moved in a while.

I know that my actuators are rated at 250lb and they never flinch... but then I am using the 1" extenders. The 2" may be stiffer.

What I've seen in testing the actuators is that the motors are so geared up that they can pick me up ... it's a question of power usage and speed.

The greater the opposing force, the slower they move and the more current they draw.

Now if you're worried that buoyancy isn't enough.. we'll need to do that math.

I would assume that each pipe needs 50lbs of force, so a combined 150lbs.