karimwassef
Active member
Let them try and catch me. I have nets!
Karim's 1500gal dream reef
- Thread starter karimwassef
- Start date
Let them try and catch me. I have nets!
jccaclimber
Member
Yes. I also suggested this a bit back when you started talking about going from a 36" tank to a 30" tank. The first couple inches are sand anyways. You'll still have plenty of viewing so that you can see in to the dark space.
karimwassef
Active member
Technically, I could have the glass cut at 36" but the pressure at 36" would be excessive without heavy bracing. Having a 6" plywood vertical lip all around should make it comparable to a 30" deep tank.
The hidden section (dark zone) is really a special part of this design. I want to be able to see the bottom clearly from all four sides. It won't have any sand (including the drop off). I expect to create a rock floor in the dropoff to mount coral directly to it with a branching structure connecting it to the higher level reef zone.
The dark zone will be a high flow, no substrate floor that will hopefully develop its own ecosystem of sponges and tunicates.
It's not a cryptic zone... its something else... I want to see it all even if nothing ever lives there.
The hidden section (dark zone) is really a special part of this design. I want to be able to see the bottom clearly from all four sides. It won't have any sand (including the drop off). I expect to create a rock floor in the dropoff to mount coral directly to it with a branching structure connecting it to the higher level reef zone.
The dark zone will be a high flow, no substrate floor that will hopefully develop its own ecosystem of sponges and tunicates.
It's not a cryptic zone... its something else... I want to see it all even if nothing ever lives there.
karimwassef
Active member
Thanks.When it's time to put it together, I'll invite everyone who can come help... if you're in the area, you're welcome to come-a-tank-raisin'
CButkos
Member
Hey, wasn't sure where to put this, but I just wanted to say that I really enjoyed your presentation earlier this month. I appreciate the scientific method you employ in testing and controversial as they may be, I think you have some great ideas.
Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
karimwassef
Active member
Thanks! It was a pleasure to come visit with you all. There's actually a Long Island Reef thread on reefcentral:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2629247
Let me know if you try something I mentioned and how it worked out for you.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2629247
Let me know if you try something I mentioned and how it worked out for you.
karimwassef
Active member
ok. Here is the current view
<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/Designs/0_zps57qeh1tj.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/Designs/0_zps57qeh1tj.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 0_zps57qeh1tj.jpg"/></a>
<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/Designs/1_zpsm0ubiix1.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/Designs/1_zpsm0ubiix1.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 1_zpsm0ubiix1.jpg"/></a>
<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/Designs/2_zpsnrq2ys4u.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/Designs/2_zpsnrq2ys4u.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 2_zpsnrq2ys4u.jpg"/></a>
and uses 114 pieces of glass ranging from 144" x 30" x 3/4" (largest) to spacer blocks at 1/2" x 1" x 1/2" (smallest).
<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/Designs/0_zps57qeh1tj.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/Designs/0_zps57qeh1tj.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 0_zps57qeh1tj.jpg"/></a>
<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/Designs/1_zpsm0ubiix1.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/Designs/1_zpsm0ubiix1.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 1_zpsm0ubiix1.jpg"/></a>
<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/Designs/2_zpsnrq2ys4u.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/Designs/2_zpsnrq2ys4u.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 2_zpsnrq2ys4u.jpg"/></a>
and uses 114 pieces of glass ranging from 144" x 30" x 3/4" (largest) to spacer blocks at 1/2" x 1" x 1/2" (smallest).
jccaclimber
Member
Do you really want to double layer the euro brace vs. giving it more width? I never liked the look of multiple pieces of glass siliconed together like that.
karimwassef
Active member
It's already 3/4" so I can't find a source for thicker glass without getting into industrial vendors.
The double layer creates a cross-brace at the corners where they overlap limiting the dependence on a butt joint for strength.
The double layer creates a cross-brace at the corners where they overlap limiting the dependence on a butt joint for strength.
karimwassef
Active member
My current tank is 27" deep and eurobraced this way. It's only 96 x 32 but no perceptible bow.
This tank really has three braces.
The bottom @ 30" deep has the plywood inserts and plywood edge to form a 1.5" inside, 2" lip channel for to glass to fit into. It also has a double stack of 3" eurobrace 3/4".
The middle @ 18" deep has the false floor 1/2" that connects 3 sides with a double stack cross brace overlapping structure. The dead tend doesn't benefit from this directly but that's only a 24" x 96" x 30" deep section (like my curent tank)
The top has the double 3/4" eurobrace 3" double stack.
The open region is 11' x 8' but really only 18" deep. Since the water level will actually be 2" down & the floor glass takes up an inch, it's only 15" deep. That puts the bow at 8" down from the waterline. With 3/4" glass, I don't think 8" is going good to how much,even at an 11' span?
The front 96" is the only risky side I think. It's an 8' span and 30" deep. But braced top and bottom with double stacks and plywood
This tank really has three braces.
The bottom @ 30" deep has the plywood inserts and plywood edge to form a 1.5" inside, 2" lip channel for to glass to fit into. It also has a double stack of 3" eurobrace 3/4".
The middle @ 18" deep has the false floor 1/2" that connects 3 sides with a double stack cross brace overlapping structure. The dead tend doesn't benefit from this directly but that's only a 24" x 96" x 30" deep section (like my curent tank)
The top has the double 3/4" eurobrace 3" double stack.
The open region is 11' x 8' but really only 18" deep. Since the water level will actually be 2" down & the floor glass takes up an inch, it's only 15" deep. That puts the bow at 8" down from the waterline. With 3/4" glass, I don't think 8" is going good to how much,even at an 11' span?
The front 96" is the only risky side I think. It's an 8' span and 30" deep. But braced top and bottom with double stacks and plywood
karimwassef
Active member
Also I think part of the beauty of this tank is the open top without metal bracing or cross elements.
The intent is to replicate the view of a reef from above. That's also why it's so shallow and so low: the deep end is only 24" over the ground, and the top of the tank is only ~54" off the ground. There are no hanging lights (almost) either. It's an open ceiling to the greenhouse to at 10'. At a 4'4" waterline... anyone can look over it to see the beauty over the expanse.
I even designed the LED fixtures to be a 1"x1" square rods without fans and liquid cooled to avoid obstructing the view (and sunlight).
Also- salt creep and fogged up cross braces are ugly imo and I know I can't clean them enough to be happy. At least the greenhouse glass I can coat with a hydrophobic coating and install spray bars to keep it clean....
The intent is to replicate the view of a reef from above. That's also why it's so shallow and so low: the deep end is only 24" over the ground, and the top of the tank is only ~54" off the ground. There are no hanging lights (almost) either. It's an open ceiling to the greenhouse to at 10'. At a 4'4" waterline... anyone can look over it to see the beauty over the expanse.
I even designed the LED fixtures to be a 1"x1" square rods without fans and liquid cooled to avoid obstructing the view (and sunlight).
Also- salt creep and fogged up cross braces are ugly imo and I know I can't clean them enough to be happy. At least the greenhouse glass I can coat with a hydrophobic coating and install spray bars to keep it clean....
karimwassef
Active member
Another thread got me thinking...
The total tank is 30" deep.. here's the stack:
2" for the groove in the wood.
11" for the lower channels
1" for the false floor
12"-15" to the waterline. Out of this, 3" is sand, so that means the water depth is effectively 9"-12".
1" headroom above the max waterline for head - this is under the 1.5" of Eurobrace thickness, not counted in the glass height.
That seemed fine until there was a discussion of the minimum depth for fish to be comfortable.
At the lowest level, and with the thickest sand layer, there would be 9" of water depth available. The fish can always scurry to the deep zone, but that could be stressful.
So.. I'm wondering if I don't need to change this distribution and give more depth to the top layer.
Thoughts? Is 9"-12" too little? What's reasonable? 12"-15"?
Should I just raise the glass height or eat into the bottom channels?
The total tank is 30" deep.. here's the stack:
2" for the groove in the wood.
11" for the lower channels
1" for the false floor
12"-15" to the waterline. Out of this, 3" is sand, so that means the water depth is effectively 9"-12".
1" headroom above the max waterline for head - this is under the 1.5" of Eurobrace thickness, not counted in the glass height.
That seemed fine until there was a discussion of the minimum depth for fish to be comfortable.
At the lowest level, and with the thickest sand layer, there would be 9" of water depth available. The fish can always scurry to the deep zone, but that could be stressful.
So.. I'm wondering if I don't need to change this distribution and give more depth to the top layer.
Thoughts? Is 9"-12" too little? What's reasonable? 12"-15"?
Should I just raise the glass height or eat into the bottom channels?
jccaclimber
Member
1) You should list what fish you want, what you expect their max height (not length) to be, and how much of the ground you expect to be obstructed (or will there be open sand channels?) Some fish get tall, others get long, some do both.
9" strike me as small given that something like a desjardini can nearly turn in to a 12" dinner plate sized fish. Would it be acceptable if the larger fish stayed only in the "deep" portion up front?
2) Obviously you should make the tank taller. I still think the bottom being a "bathtub" rather than "platform" shape would help with this. You'll have to work out how to make it come out correctly aesthetically in the front, but it won't matter for the dark zones. You'll still be able to see in to them as needed.
9" strike me as small given that something like a desjardini can nearly turn in to a 12" dinner plate sized fish. Would it be acceptable if the larger fish stayed only in the "deep" portion up front?
2) Obviously you should make the tank taller. I still think the bottom being a "bathtub" rather than "platform" shape would help with this. You'll have to work out how to make it come out correctly aesthetically in the front, but it won't matter for the dark zones. You'll still be able to see in to them as needed.
karimwassef
Active member
Actually, the 2" PVC plumbing and the powerheads in the bottom section area already squeezed to the limit. I can't go smaller without compromising the holes I need to drill for the PVC... so if I need more water, I'll have to go higher by a few inches.
<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/Designs/0_zpsklrrcmuh.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/Designs/0_zpsklrrcmuh.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 0_zpsklrrcmuh.jpg"/></a>
<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/Designs/0_zpsjmg2v2cp.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/Designs/0_zpsjmg2v2cp.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 0_zpsjmg2v2cp.jpg"/></a>
<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/Designs/0_zpsklrrcmuh.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/Designs/0_zpsklrrcmuh.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 0_zpsklrrcmuh.jpg"/></a>
<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/Designs/0_zpsjmg2v2cp.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/Designs/0_zpsjmg2v2cp.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 0_zpsjmg2v2cp.jpg"/></a>
karimwassef
Active member
Ok.. so basically grow the bottom wood and epoxy section up the sides so the glass doesn't have to take any more stress at the bottom.
I do plan to keep a desjardini - I already have one and it's probably 9" from top fin to bottom fin now.
karimwassef
Active member
so Danny - how would you address the glass / wood interface?
Does the glass extend down but isn't bearing load since it's behind wood? Seems like a waste of starphire.
Would you create an internal lip for the glass to sit on? That creates corners and the plywood/epoxy interface is most reliable when the surfaces are completely flat. Even the groove I have was troublesome.
In theory, I could probably add another foot if I went wood-tub bottom, but I'd have to reinforce with a double or triple plywood wall construction or a steel brace.
Does the glass extend down but isn't bearing load since it's behind wood? Seems like a waste of starphire.
Would you create an internal lip for the glass to sit on? That creates corners and the plywood/epoxy interface is most reliable when the surfaces are completely flat. Even the groove I have was troublesome.
In theory, I could probably add another foot if I went wood-tub bottom, but I'd have to reinforce with a double or triple plywood wall construction or a steel brace.
jccaclimber
Member
You don't have to put a ton of glass under the wood. My inclination is that an inch would do just fine. I'd be more worried about the wood side of the interface failing.
Have you looked around on MFK at some of the plywood/hybrid builds there? It's been a while since I spent any time there, but I remember there being a lot of plywood tanks.
It a minimum you want an internal lip for the glass to sit on, a full groove wouldn't hurt.
Have you looked around on MFK at some of the plywood/hybrid builds there? It's been a while since I spent any time there, but I remember there being a lot of plywood tanks.
It a minimum you want an internal lip for the glass to sit on, a full groove wouldn't hurt.
