Karim's 1500gal dream reef

so the evaporation rate, even with no forced air (no fans) would be higher than the wick rate into the pads?

My idea was to go with passive cooling - windows at the bottom and vents (not forced) at the top. The idea being that hot air naturally rises up and out and the inlet air is cooled through evaporation and stays low... pushing the hot air up.
 
Using wick water makeup would be extremely passive, with little efficiency. Like anything else, there is a balance to be achieved. First, I would use vent fans in the ceiling. They would move heat from the highest point of air rising naturally with temperature gain. Vent fans could be adjusted for both air flow and quiet operations. You will have to find the balance between air flow three wet pads and water flow from top to bottom. Heat gain and evaporative cooling required in April will be differrent in Ausgust. With fan air volume adjustable to BTU demand and noise pollution all requirements can be satisfied.

When I spoke about specific density, I was addressing the thermal stability of water in your large system. Dry air takes fewer BTU to change temperature than damp air. The biggest consumer of energy in room air conditioning is "latent heat" or water vapor which we call humidity. Consider a large volumn of water contained under ground to benefit from geothermal energy gain. Use that same geothermal sink as an extender of system volume. The biggest advantage to thermal stability with a large reservoir is that heat removal equipment could be undersized. Meaning that system volume was large enough to prevent excessive temperature swings during the hottest parts of the day or the coldest part of the night.

I would use a heat pump with titanium tube and shell heat exchanger for my tank water. Use the link that I provided and get good engineering tips. I guestimate you will need a 5 ton unit.

As climate calls for it, use evaporative cooling in sun room but allow for central heating and cooling for big segments of the year.
 
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I agree.

That's another design point on the continuum of cooling options I discussed earlier. Using DC fans and a trough water level monitor, both can be optimized to self adjust. I haven't figured out how to automatically trigger shutdown during inclement weather events though. I was thinking of an online weather alert trigger.

On the humidity - yes. This is by far the most worrisome. Not only for comfort or metal degradation but because it significantly reduces the cooling capacity of the air. Unfortunately, this puts the swamp cooler above at a disadvantage since the output is cool humid air that may be ineffective at cooling the tank water. I just imagine beads of water running down the sides of the tank glass and making little puddles on the stand and floor.

This is why a humidity sensor is just as important as a temp sensor. Above a humidity level, the swamp cooler should shut down and let the HVAC remove heat and humidity. In a warm rain for example, only the HVAC could provide any value. On a cool dry summer day, the swamp cooler can add value again. It may be best to actually monitor the five variables: outside and inside air temp, humidity + inclement trigger, then use a decision matrix to control the five elements- chiller, heater, HVAC, swamp cooler and dehumidifier (winter use).

The geothermal has been a back burner concept for years. I think the heat pumps are pretty expensive and was leaning towards buried titanium rods to pass filtered tank water through. I even buried 200 ft of titanium tubing to test, but never completed the experiment. Using an underground water reservoir with a heat pump is interesting. The inaccessibility is what bothers me though. If something goes wrong, it becomes irrecoverable.

Maybe a buried water basin with titanium tubes running through it carrying tank water? There would be fewer heat exchange elements and cost would be the lowest. The water would need to be sterilized and filtered first though it I might develop sponges in the long dark tubes. :D

Maybe use PEX for the in and out to avoid ground stresses from damaging the connection.
 
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Here's my incomplete geothermal project in my backyard

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/b3.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/b3.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo b3.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/b1.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/b1.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo b1.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/b2.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/b2.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo b2.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/c3.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/c3.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo c3.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/c2.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/c2.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo c2.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/4A2764B3-8AFB-4078-B4F0-6996B5DEFACC_zpsachtd4yd.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/4A2764B3-8AFB-4078-B4F0-6996B5DEFACC_zpsachtd4yd.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 4A2764B3-8AFB-4078-B4F0-6996B5DEFACC_zpsachtd4yd.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/c4.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/c4.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo c4.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/E4444382-583F-465A-9068-C6DFC42F9602_zpsiwriezoy.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/E4444382-583F-465A-9068-C6DFC42F9602_zpsiwriezoy.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo E4444382-583F-465A-9068-C6DFC42F9602_zpsiwriezoy.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/8D4BD4B8-1EA0-4760-B5DE-5E1EC8D09325_zps6d0rdfws.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/8D4BD4B8-1EA0-4760-B5DE-5E1EC8D09325_zps6d0rdfws.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 8D4BD4B8-1EA0-4760-B5DE-5E1EC8D09325_zps6d0rdfws.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/D6823601-7480-45BF-8A1F-AFF96FECFA01_zpswpkmmqnv.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/D6823601-7480-45BF-8A1F-AFF96FECFA01_zpswpkmmqnv.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo D6823601-7480-45BF-8A1F-AFF96FECFA01_zpswpkmmqnv.jpg"/></a>
 
Finished
<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/073590DB-97AD-41F7-A6D5-3E573C651891_zpshdellbeg.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/073590DB-97AD-41F7-A6D5-3E573C651891_zpshdellbeg.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 073590DB-97AD-41F7-A6D5-3E573C651891_zpshdellbeg.jpg"/></a>

Ok. It wasn't a real geothermal because I could only go down 2ft... But the idea was to collect data on flow, temp, degradation over time.

I took it seriously enough to lay the pipes, but didn't have the bandwidth to follow through... Silly scientist!

The pipes are still there though, waiting to be run and tested. And that may have been the engine of procrastination... I can always do it tomorrow, umm.. Two years later
 
Titanium is about as expensive as you can get.

When I was considering earth coupled heat pumps, we calculated that 200' of 1" PVC was sufficient heat transfer to equal 1 ton of AC. After 20', pipe was submerged in Aquifier water making for a much better heat transfer coefficient of performance.
 
Is two feet even going to be deep enough to provide meaningful results?

It seems like going with a greenhouse is going to be a HUGE headache and expense as far as maintaining stability in your reef system. I guess worst case scenario is that the heating/cooling doesn't work as expected and you can put koi in the tank instead of a reef. Still pretty cool!!! :0)
 
McPuff said:
Is two feet even going to be deep enough to provide meaningful results?

It seems like going with a greenhouse is going to be a HUGE headache and expense as far as maintaining stability in your reef system. I guess worst case scenario is that the heating/cooling doesn't work as expected and you can put koi in the tank instead of a reef. Still pretty cool!!! :0)
Click to expand...

Is it meaningful? I don't know. It's still worth trying I think.

The sunroom is happening anyway. Will it be stable? At 1500 gallons, I think so. It'll just be a ship that's hard to steer... very stable, but very hard to turn if things go wrong.

Worst case, my HVAC bill will be high... no KOI!
 
karimwassef said:
Is it meaningful? I don't know. It's still worth trying I think.

The sunroom is happening anyway. Will it be stable? At 1500 gallons, I think so. It'll just be a ship that's hard to steer... very stable, but very hard to turn if things go wrong.

Worst case, my HVAC bill will be high... no KOI!
Click to expand...


You summed it up when you said, "it will be stable". If the heat gain is too much, you will know it quickly. You may want to set up a Galveston Bay Biotype tank initially to survive temperature swings. In any case if you need more system water cooling & heating, seriously consider using heat pumps:

http://pentairaes.com/heat-pumps.html

This series is air to water in the range of 1-30HP. I suggest 3-5HP st $9000..
 
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The reason I asked about being viewed from living area was the option of using sun room viewing as a secondary view. During the 6 months that heat was not an issue, then sunroom could become a primary view.
 
<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/Designs/1_zpszqwqzacd.png.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/Designs/1_zpszqwqzacd.png" border="0" alt=" photo 1_zpszqwqzacd.png"/></a>
 
When I look at your design concept, my first thoughts are solar collector.

Being from the Deep South, we were all about shade porches.

You will spend much money on temperature comfort control.
 
Wait a few years and you can get the glass panes that double as solar panels!

If you were to tint the glass it would keep a lot of the heat out. But then it doesn't look quite as natural. Do they make the eyeglass automatic tinting for windows?
 
Darth_Tater said:
Wait a few years and you can get the glass panes that double as solar panels!

If you were to tint the glass it would keep a lot of the heat out. But then it doesn't look quite as natural. Do they make the eyeglass automatic tinting for windows?
Click to expand...

In Austin, there are very low interest loans to homeowners for solar equipment.
 
From personnel knowledge, direct Texas sunshine in summer is brutal. I used 40k CFM of air thru a 20' by 40' by 6' high greenhouse to maintain < 80 degrees during 100 degree days. I also used a 2HP blower to move water in addittion to 1.5 HP centrifugal pump to operate fountains and jets. Evaporative cooling was enhanced and demanded at the same time: During the hottest part of the day when BTU input is at its highest at the same time that humidity is at its lowest. Lower humidities mean higher evaporative rate. This equates to getting more work for the same cost of electricity.

In my system, fans came on at noon and off at 10PM. The volume in the big tank stabilized temperature swings in the system.

When my electric bills hit $1000, I pulled the plug. Initially, I ran 50% reduction light filters, then increased it to 75% light reduction.

In your case, I would build sun room with a large skylight over the aquarium. During summer, additional filters would be required over sunroom skylight. No need for complete roof to pass thru light energy. A skylight would focus attention to the tank. More importantly a skylight with a solid roof would limit BTU input into room air temperature.

During the winter time, we may get 30'days where we are not required to remove heat.
 
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That's why I picked a high solar gain low E glass

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/0_zpstmcgubbg.png.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/0_zpstmcgubbg.png" border="0" alt=" photo 0_zpstmcgubbg.png"/></a>

Azuria seems to be the most balanced. Here is the thread where I go through the options

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2537919
 
As far a construction and location, yes - it is by design a solar collector. That's why I value fresh air whenever it's dry. It's also why I have large folding glass doors, low intake window and high ceiling vents... And the rest of the conversation on cooling and humidity :D
 
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