Keeping deep water species
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BeanAnimal
Premium Member
Another person that would likely be able to easily answer your questions would be Dr. Gerald Allen.
By your "calculations" of a 10 degree drop per 100 FSW, you would be looking at temperatures of approx -90 degrees F at a depth of 2000 FSW...try again.
Many deep water species are kept at public aquaria, I can think of approx 2 dozen species I've kept in my time in this industry...but the group consensus here is right, something indeed seems "fishy" here, so I'll ask again, if you can name the species perhaps someone can offer some advice.
Many deep water species are kept at public aquaria, I can think of approx 2 dozen species I've kept in my time in this industry...but the group consensus here is right, something indeed seems "fishy" here, so I'll ask again, if you can name the species perhaps someone can offer some advice.
bchristie, that calculation only applied to several hundred feet worked out from a depth and temp chart. I have not found any deep temperature reading from deep tropical water or in the specific region of the collection.
So what temperature do you maintain your deep water displays and what depth are the species collected from?
So what temperature do you maintain your deep water displays and what depth are the species collected from?
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BeanAnimal
Premium Member
Crumbs, to be frank.. it is rather annoying that you are trying to pick people brains for information but refuse to disclose the species you need help with. If you have not noticed, that is the general mood that every poster in this thread has taken.
Not only have you not disclosed the species, but you have flat out ignored several direct requests for the information.
If this is a commercial venture, then you may want to spend the time and money doing the proper research. You have been given some good starting points.
If it is an illegal operation or illegal species then I suggest you look elsewhere for the help.
You are certainly free to continue as you have been. I am just trying to kindly let you know that these types of cat and mouse posts annoy the crap out of people.
Not only have you not disclosed the species, but you have flat out ignored several direct requests for the information.
If this is a commercial venture, then you may want to spend the time and money doing the proper research. You have been given some good starting points.
If it is an illegal operation or illegal species then I suggest you look elsewhere for the help.
You are certainly free to continue as you have been. I am just trying to kindly let you know that these types of cat and mouse posts annoy the crap out of people.
Well Crumbs,
Without knowing the species involved I can't really invest the time to look this up for you, but I know of some Bathynomus that were collected in tropical waters at 500 meters and 5.5 degrees C., so I would be willing to venture that at 1500 meters, the value is going to be close to the thermal minimum of the ocean - say 2 degrees C.
Decompression becomes a moot point - the fish that are prone to gass bladder expansion are going to not make it no matter what. For animals without gas bladders, the first issue is getting them to the surface fast enough that the rising temps won't kill them. The second issue that I do not have first hand experience with is that some deep water animals will die from oxygen poisoning when exposed to higher saturation levels found in captivity as opposed to their normal habitat. Finally, it has been thought that in *some* cases, extreme pressue may actually drive certain metabolic functions in animals - so they just won't live at surface pressures, even if you can get them there safely.
Now, on the chance that you had a typo when you wrote the fish comes to within 1500 m of the surface at night, and you meant 150 m - I'm guessing that you are thinking of lanternfish and or possibly marine hatchetfish. Good luck with that if you are - they have such delicate skin that their scales literally slough off if they touch anything.
Many years ago, I tried night-lighting in the "tongue of the ocean" in the Bahamas and lots of cool epi-pelagics came to the light, but NONE of them survived the confines of my holding tanks for more than a few hours. I had caught one strange needlefish - looking thing that just hovered in the on-board tank and began twitching, and literally broke itself into pieces as I watched. I was so disgusted, I immediatley turned the light off and never tried it again.
The Japanese are collecting some interesting pseudo-deepwater animals from 200 to 800 meters in Suruga Bay, stalked crinoids, odd crabs, etc.
Jay Hemdal
Without knowing the species involved I can't really invest the time to look this up for you, but I know of some Bathynomus that were collected in tropical waters at 500 meters and 5.5 degrees C., so I would be willing to venture that at 1500 meters, the value is going to be close to the thermal minimum of the ocean - say 2 degrees C.
Decompression becomes a moot point - the fish that are prone to gass bladder expansion are going to not make it no matter what. For animals without gas bladders, the first issue is getting them to the surface fast enough that the rising temps won't kill them. The second issue that I do not have first hand experience with is that some deep water animals will die from oxygen poisoning when exposed to higher saturation levels found in captivity as opposed to their normal habitat. Finally, it has been thought that in *some* cases, extreme pressue may actually drive certain metabolic functions in animals - so they just won't live at surface pressures, even if you can get them there safely.
Now, on the chance that you had a typo when you wrote the fish comes to within 1500 m of the surface at night, and you meant 150 m - I'm guessing that you are thinking of lanternfish and or possibly marine hatchetfish. Good luck with that if you are - they have such delicate skin that their scales literally slough off if they touch anything.
Many years ago, I tried night-lighting in the "tongue of the ocean" in the Bahamas and lots of cool epi-pelagics came to the light, but NONE of them survived the confines of my holding tanks for more than a few hours. I had caught one strange needlefish - looking thing that just hovered in the on-board tank and began twitching, and literally broke itself into pieces as I watched. I was so disgusted, I immediatley turned the light off and never tried it again.
The Japanese are collecting some interesting pseudo-deepwater animals from 200 to 800 meters in Suruga Bay, stalked crinoids, odd crabs, etc.
Jay Hemdal
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
Thanks Bill... I suppose my comments were not that helpful.
It is just hard to give somebody the benefit of the doubt when they will not give you an answer, or even a reason for not giving an answer.
Crumbs, I hope you find the information you are looking for.
It is just hard to give somebody the benefit of the doubt when they will not give you an answer, or even a reason for not giving an answer.
Crumbs, I hope you find the information you are looking for.
The only info I was requesting was water temperatures at great depths. If I can not ask this question with out doing a tank build thread I am sorry.
I just wanted to see if anyone has crossed this bridge before. Im not going to attempt something that has not bin done successfully (yet) but just testing the waters. From the looks of it the commercial grade chillers I have seen do not have the cooling capacity. Im going to continue researching. If and when I make this happen Ill let you guys know.
Sorry to get you all so rattled
Crumb,
I gave you a pretty good estimate. Since you just sort of panned it, I did a quick web search for you. The second site I saw had this quote:
The temperature of the ocean at sea level around Hawaii is about 25 or 26 degrees Celsius. At 200 m, the temperature is around 15 degress C and at 400 m it is about 7 degrees C. The deeper you go, the colder it gets. Below about 2000 m, the temperature is about 2 to 3 degrees C.
Jay
I gave you a pretty good estimate. Since you just sort of panned it, I did a quick web search for you. The second site I saw had this quote:
The temperature of the ocean at sea level around Hawaii is about 25 or 26 degrees Celsius. At 200 m, the temperature is around 15 degress C and at 400 m it is about 7 degrees C. The deeper you go, the colder it gets. Below about 2000 m, the temperature is about 2 to 3 degrees C.
Jay
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
Crumbs,
With all due respect...
"how cold does it get at the north pole? I have a guy who might get me an animal from there and I need to know what the temperature for that region is".
That begs the question... WHAT ANIMAL?. Some may require a specific temperature to survive, others may not. The temperature is only releveant when the species is known. I think that is what many of us are trying to point out. Thus the "something is phishy" comments.
This is a public discussion forum and people are eager to participate in an "advanced conversation". When you go to the store and buy a nomex suit and a crash helmet the sales guy is going to be curious as to the application. 1) to provide you with the best answer and 2) out of curiosity as to your adventure. When you ignore the questions or dodge the questions, it only serves to raise the level of curiosity. The reality is that people are less inclined to help if they don't know what they are participating in.
Good luck with your project.
With all due respect...
"how cold does it get at the north pole? I have a guy who might get me an animal from there and I need to know what the temperature for that region is".
That begs the question... WHAT ANIMAL?. Some may require a specific temperature to survive, others may not. The temperature is only releveant when the species is known. I think that is what many of us are trying to point out. Thus the "something is phishy" comments.
This is a public discussion forum and people are eager to participate in an "advanced conversation". When you go to the store and buy a nomex suit and a crash helmet the sales guy is going to be curious as to the application. 1) to provide you with the best answer and 2) out of curiosity as to your adventure. When you ignore the questions or dodge the questions, it only serves to raise the level of curiosity. The reality is that people are less inclined to help if they don't know what they are participating in.
Good luck with your project.
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Giving a name can only aid your search for the info you seek. Holding it back holds back what info is available to you. Some animals acclimate far better to temps, but not even the most knowledgable person in the world could assist with that info with out a name. Who knows, the animal you seek may be such.
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
I would buy you a beer...
Cool, a beer is always good....six is even better
BTW: it seems that if you type "grin" inside angle brackets, it gets deleted from the post. Please understand that I did originally include that particular modifier at the end of my previous post, and had tongue firmly planted in cheek...
Jay
BTW: it seems that if you type "grin" inside angle brackets, it gets deleted from the post. Please understand that I did originally include that particular modifier at the end of my previous post, and had tongue firmly planted in cheek...
Jay
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
Virtual beer is worse than NA beer.
