Keeping fish in pairs and groups

[Roman120G]

Hello

would like to bump up an excellent thread that died off a few years ago.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=243359

many reefers are choose not to go this road due to the difficulties and time consumingness of the task, but at the end it does pay off, IMO.

I am newbie and even before reading that thread, I made my choice to try to have as many paired fish as possible. That, IMO, would be as close to nature as possible, giving the pair's relations and plays.

thus, if anyone cares to share their recent positive or negative experience with trying to pair some marine species, please, do. I am sure, many people would love to read about it and learn a thing or two.

my wish list for pairs with some info that I had found on the net on how to differentiate the gender is below:

1. False percula Clownfish x 2 ALREADY HAVE
2. Bicolour blenny – pair ( recommended to have one bigger and another smaller, male should be bigger) Also, female is less colored, some people have it totally one color (brown or black) ( SEE PHOTO)

3. Firefish, Purple (Nemateleotris decora) pair
4. Yasha Goby –pair (brown/dark spot on the pectoral fin, male is bigger) with two Candy Stripe Pistol Shrimp
5. Royal gramma basslet – pair
6. Pearly Jawfish –pair or more (male have two spots on their jaw hile the female have none.
7. Spotted Cardinalfish - pair
8. Carpenter's Flasher Wrasse - pair
9. Mandarin goby- pair


keep the tread alive

thank you

 

[alton]

Nice thread I have
Flame Angel Pair - 1 Med. Large and aded a baby, they have spawned once (that I saw)
Diamond Goby Pair
Regal Angel almost Pair(I pray) Med Large Male and added a juvenile. I have a piece of plexi glass seperating the tank so the smaller has a place to retreat, because the larger has been shreding the smaller one, but yet the smaller one continues to go back to the dark side. Yesterday I came home and they ate together? I am crossing my fingers.
Queen Angels - I added two juveniles together one larger than the other, I tried acclimating them together in a bucket, but the larger one tried to kill the smaller. So I placed a piece of plexi glass in the tank to seperate them, the smaller angel was killing itself to get to the other side so I pulled the plexi glass out, so far the larger hasn't killed the smaller one just lets her know who's boss.
Yellowhead Jawfish Pair - I lost one of the two, I have since added a juvenile to try and re-pair? I don't quite agree with the two dots on the chin being a male. If you want a pair order one from KP Aquatics(the old Sealife Inc.) Yellow heads are better looking than Pearly's.
Matt Pederson and Copps have been my motivators to try this.

 

[pinnatus]

Here are mine:

 

[tvoydan]

I keep and pair of mandarin gobies. Problem is pod population needs to sufficient to support 2 of these. I have not noticed a decrease in nightly pods in a 100ga with plenty of live rock. And both seem to be fat and happy (so far). Male has a long dorsal fin like a spike, female's short and round. They seem to get along well but I have not noticed any mating behavior in the month I've had them together.

I hope to get them to eat frozen mysis shrimp in the long run to supplement the diet.

 

[michael_cb_125]

I agree that keeping fish is pairs or small groups (harems) is the most rewarding part of this hobby. Sure one angel or butterfly is nice, but seeing the social interaction between fish is part of what attracted me to this hobby in the first place. IMO keeping fish in groups or pairs often allows aquarists to get away with keeping some species that are considered not reef safe in reefs. Bored fish will often show signs of boredom ie nipping coral or developing other negative behaviors. Keep em occupied with each other and they are less likely to stay occupied with your corals. This is from my personal experience with angels and butterflies.

~Michael

 

[MrTuskfish]

A great source for those interested in the subject. Funny thing about most tank bred fish; its still cheaper to capture them in the wild than to home-breed them. Third world divers may get a nickle for a clownfish. There are many newer fish being caught (as tiny fry, larvae) and then raised to salable size in Bali (Sounds great, but its still Indonesia) and other Asian Countries. Many folks see "tank raised' and think "tank bred". For people like me, who think SW fish can be responsibly collected without hurting the fish population, it doesn't matter. More & more SW fish will become the Wal-Mart fish of the future: all the work is done overseas. Raising FW or SW fish for profit is VERY time and labor intensive. But my oldest daughter bought her first car, on her 16th birthday, with money saved by raising FW Angels, discus and SW clownfish. She probably made less than $1 an hour; but what a learning experience!. http://www.reef2rainforest.com/2013...ptive-bred-marine-fish-species-list-for-2013/

 

[Roman120G]

Great stuff guys,

Thank you Alton for suggestion, and yes Yellowhead Jawfish is a bit prettier then Pearly, they look much alike.

as for the place to purchase, KP is in Fl, and I am in Montreal, Canada.
I have not seen an US fish store being able to ship live goods over to Canada. Customs are either too high or simply wont allow it.

I have found a few good quality stores locally who keep their places and aquariums clean. So, hope to be ordering from them.

How did you choose your Yellowhead Jawfish? which one is male and which female?

i read that you can have 3-5 of them and they are not aggressive.


Pinnatus, great photos, Angels look amazing.
I really wanted to get pair like yours, but I plan on mix reef, and they are not reef safe. However, it does depend on the individual. I may try later on and hope they wont pick on the corals.

how did you choose your royal gammas?

 

[Roman120G]

I keep and pair of mandarin gobies. Problem is pod population needs to sufficient to support 2 of these. I have not noticed a decrease in nightly pods in a 100ga with plenty of live rock. And both seem to be fat and happy (so far). Male has a long dorsal fin like a spike, female's short and round. They seem to get along well but I have not noticed any mating behavior in the month I've had them together.

I hope to get them to eat frozen mysis shrimp in the long run to supplement the diet.

did you QT them, and if yes, both together? and what size QT?

any preventative medication? Prazipro, Cupramine?

I read that QT is the place where you try to get them to eat what you want them to eat. Does not always work, but you can always try.

 

[pinnatus]

how did you choose your royal grammas?

Actually I originally got a group of six. 4 disappeared over a month or so, one of which I found the body. That left those two. They will fight from time to time. But they hang around each other most of the time. I would like to add a few more to get back to the harem I had envisioned.

The angels never fight, but also don't interact that much. But they are both juveniles, so I am basically happy that they don't fight. I am looking forward to them becoming adults and hopefully pairing.

 

[alton]

To tell you the truth I could never tell which was which? Since they did not have eggs I was never able to see which one was the male. KP sells mated pairs or juveniles. It seems your store could buy them from KP if as an individual you cannot?
On the 3 – 5 not that aggressive I had two in my office tank, one larger and one smaller. In the two years they were together, no problems, every once in a while the larger would move into the smaller ones burrow for a day and then they would trade back. Like I said two years, at the end of those two years the smaller one was not smaller anymore, and one day did not move out so the fight was on till I was able to pick up the older one by hand, he did not make it. So I was down to one. One of our local club members had three pairs in a 220, but I think only two of the pairs ever did very well?

 

[geaux xman]

I have 2 achilles, 2 personifers(1 is a meredith) angelfish, 2 lemonpeels(tried 5, but too much aggression).

I tried 2 scribbled angels, but one wanted to kill the other.

 

[Dmorty217]

I have 2 achilles, 2 personifers(1 is a meredith) angelfish, 2 lemonpeels(tried 5, but too much aggression).

I tried 2 scribbled angels, but one wanted to kill the other.

2 Achilles that must be a sight! I would love to see a large tank with many pairs of different tangs

 

[geaux xman]

i forgot about the 3 bangaii i had put in the tank. 2 literally disappeared after a couple of days and their remains were never seen. So I have one bangaii left.

old video. I should make another one soon if I can find my camera. Same stock list as seen here, plus an additional tang and 1 bangaii. I do have another bangaii in my 33g, but since its not copper treated, I'm not adding it to my 180g.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7a19h1S5Bk

 

[Roman120G]

To tell you the truth I could never tell which was which? Since they did not have eggs I was never able to see which one was the male. KP sells mated pairs or juveniles. It seems your store could buy them from KP if as an individual you cannot?
On the 3 "“ 5 not that aggressive I had two in my office tank, one larger and one smaller. In the two years they were together, no problems, every once in a while the larger would move into the smaller ones burrow for a day and then they would trade back. Like I said two years, at the end of those two years the smaller one was not smaller anymore, and one day did not move out so the fight was on till I was able to pick up the older one by hand, he did not make it. So I was down to one. One of our local club members had three pairs in a 220, but I think only two of the pairs ever did very well?

I see,
will get in touch with KP and see how can I arrange things.

I have spoken to 3 LFS regarding bonded pairs and all of them say it is very rare and even possible.
Surely, they do not want to get involved into time and possible money consuming deal. Especially if they get a group of fish and one agressor kills a few of the smaller ones. It will simply be the shop's loss.

so far, as much info have been going around, it is just a matter of luck and personal desire to achieve the goal.

 

[shifty99]

In my 225g FOWLR I currently have pairs of
Crosshatch triggers
Clownfish
Cherub angels

This is the theme I want to continue with but not sure which pair to try next. I woud like a pair of pearlscale butterflys or a pair of regal tangs but I can not find much info on pairing these two. Anyone have experience with them?

 

[bullitr]

Most of my fish are pairs of harem they looks better that way.
I have at least 30 pairs or harem of wrasses , anthias, and angels

 

[LobsterOfJustice]

I like keeping fish in pairs and groups as well, but just know that keeping all fish in pairs in not always the most natural thing. Plenty live in large groups (some tight knit, some loose aggregations), some live in harems, some pairs, and some are solitary. Do some research on the individual fish to see how it is found in nature.

 

[rlpardue]

I've spent gobs of time, energy and cash on trying to obtain pairs (or harems) of fish and thought I'd add a brief synopsis of this aspect of the hobby, organized by type of fish.

Angels - Many people have great success in keeping pairs of angels; I'm risk-averse when it comes to things that eat corals, so I have no knowledge here.

Anthias - Dimorphic, hermaphroditic - These are easy fish to keep in harems. Easy to tell if a fish is male or female, and is also easy to dump four females in a tank and have the largest become a male.

Blennies - Sometimes dimorphic but somewhat difficult to pair up. Like dottybacks (below), they may initially engage in territorial or fussy behavior with each other, even if of opposite gender. Once they pair, I've seen some uber-cool pictures of a pair sharing a PVC tube or hole in a rock.

I have a very cute and very evil pair of blennies from Galveston that nest together and have spawned in another tank. They are evil because they eat corals. (at least mine did). I believe they are "crested blennies" but unsure of the ID. I would assume similar blennies (like Molly Millers) should have similar romantic behavior.

The fang-toothed blennies are apparently best kept in harems. Not sure where I read this, but I'm thinking specifically of Grammistes sp.

Cardinalfish - These are difficult to sex. I have a breeding pair of Banggais that I picked out from an LFS after staring at a group of 8 for an hour and a half lol. Ultimately we just test-paired them in little boxes and tried to look for behavioral clues. There is a method of determining gender involving the fish's "vent". This is difficult yet apparently reliable. Looking at their fins is not reliable. These fish are rewarding to keep as a pair. My experience with paired cardinals is limited to the Banggais though.

Chromis - Oftentimes you'll hear people say that they added 7 of these (blue/green ones) to their tank when they set it up, and after three years there is only one pair left that spawns regularly.

Clowns - the "gimme-putt" of them all. Enough said.

Dottybacks - Sometimes dimorphic. This is one type of fish that is commonly seen in pairs yet I've not had any experience with them personally. I've heard that they may fuss at each other quite a bit when initially introduced but will eventually calm down. No spectacularly cute behavior. Need lots of crevices to hide from each other in during the initial phase after introduction. For the many species which aren't dimorphic, I guess people just bite the bullet and toss two into the DT?

Gobies - Not often dimorphic. (Difficult to distinguish gender based on appearance alone). However, IME this group of fish is quite easy to match up - simply put two in a tank and watch them. If they're a pair they will exhibit tactile, touchy-feely behavior, constantly brushing against one another and following each other around. I love gobies. I had a pair of Tiger Wardi gobies (one of the smaller sand-sifters) for a year until last week when one of them managed to jump through a gap in the canopy. Definitely one of my favorite fish despite the occasional sandstorms.

I've had pairs of Yashas with a pistol shrimp too. Each time I tried a pair it worked; I was just lucky. Also paired neon gobies easily.

The clown gobies are haremic I believe - just throw in 4-5 of them.

Seahorses - Easy to sex once they're older. The males have a "pouch" and females do not. Can keep in pairs or groups.

Pipefish - Same as seahorses; look for male's pouch. One of my fish-list items is a pair of blue-striped pipefish.

Wrasses - Great fish for keeping in pairs or harems. Fairy wrasses are especially good for keeping in groups of 1 male and usually 2+ females. A wrasse will begin life as a female and turn into a male later in life or if it is the biggest fish in its social group. You should research "super-males", further complexities in gender ID, but in general I add one big female and 2-3 little female fairy wrasses (ex. Lubbocks) and the big one will go "terminal phase" - meaning turns into a male. I also have a pair of Haliocheres Chrysus - the yellow "Coris" wrasse - the bigger female turned into a male. Research the species before trying this - many wrasses will kill another of the same species if you have too small of a tank.

Mandarins/Dragonets - I almost forgot these guys. They are sexually dimorphic - usually the male has some kind of flaring dorsal fin. Often spawn in captivity. Difficulty in getting them to eat prepared foods, but if you do then having a pair is great!

Hopefully Paul B will chime in - I'd like to know what he and other people do when disaster strikes - when you have a pair and one of them dies.

 

[Paul B]

I keep a pair of mandarins, Banded orange gobies/shrimp, five threadfin cardinals, pair of clown gobies, pair of striped cardinals and a pair of fireclowns.
In this video, all of these fish are spawning except the copperband. I love it when the fish spawn, that tells me they are in excellent condition. If you have a mated pair of fish and they are not spawning, they are not as healthy as they can be. All healthy mated fish spawn (if they are the type of fish that can and will spawn in a tank.

 

[rlpardue]

Can you tell whether your orange-banded gobies have ever spawned? My tiger wardi pair was awfully protective of their den - just can't tell what goes on in there