kdblove_99
New member
yeah donate one to mars i would love to borrow one
Kill-a-watt $14.99
- Thread starter Reefugee
- Start date
kdblove_99
New member
Sure Steve bring it to the DIY tomorrow?
funman1
Active member
If you look at the label and assume it correct.
Thank again....
Just like Sanjay was showing us a 400W ballast and lamp "should" pull 400 watts right?
NOT SO, in some cases it was pulling like 600 watts.
They REALLY help you find out things about your equipment you did not know.
Thank again....
Just like Sanjay was showing us a 400W ballast and lamp "should" pull 400 watts right?
NOT SO, in some cases it was pulling like 600 watts.
They REALLY help you find out things about your equipment you did not know.
dots
Premium Member
http://www.pumped101.com/
http://www.pumped101.com/efficiency.pdf
http://www.motorsanddrives.com/cowern/motorterms8.html
http://www.driedger.ca/ce1_cp/CE1_CP.html
So I searched and searched for some good recources that would explain your question about power and pumps that was easy to read and straight forward with all the information related to our application. So rather than type and type and type it all.....you can read, and read and read it all.
Here is the deal, and the key are pump curves and knowing where you lie on that curve. One of the most confusing and misunderstood things that people do when setting up thier tank are the return pumps. Most of the time, the mistakes we make are so minor, it doesn't matter, however when you get into larger flows and pressures and larger pumps the problems of a mismatched system are evident, and costly. This is why we get away with ignoring pump curves and buying the pumps FIRST rather than designing the system. Instead we go about it backwards and wonder why we have so many "problems" Pump selection should be based on the required flow, with a given and prededermined Total Dynamic Head, that is based on the plumbing design. Most problems occur when this is ignored for personal observations of others, based on what is usually a different setup than what you will have.
The key to pump selection is finding a pump that operates at it peak effeciency based on your system conditions. If not, the pump will not preform at its peak flow, pressure, which may vibrate or cavitate. The relations between these characteristics in pump applications such as ours are governed by the Affinity Laws as seen in one of the links. There is such a law that relates power used as discussed here, but there is nothing for free and the efficiencies and pump performances are changed.
It is true, throttling the suction does decrease the amperage draw, but this also shifts the duty point of the pump, creating a less efficient pump, which in turn can lessen flow or TDH. The main concern with suction throttling is it effect the Net Positive Suction Head and the increase possibility of cavitation, (another misdiagnosed reefer problem that is usually air entrainment instead), if the pump was already poorly matched with the system, this can only compound the system.
The Affinity laws also relate to impeller diameters, which I am suprised is not played with more in the hobby, by trimming or increasing the diameter of the impeller one can bring the system and pump curves in line to match the two, which in turn relates to Variable Frequency Drives that could be thought in regards to as "infinitly adjustable impellers". VFD's are cool because the shift the Best Efficiency point (BEP) of the pump.
Well, I didn't write "that" much.......lots going on though and may not be worth the pennies you may save in doing so.
http://www.pumped101.com/efficiency.pdf
http://www.motorsanddrives.com/cowern/motorterms8.html
http://www.driedger.ca/ce1_cp/CE1_CP.html
So I searched and searched for some good recources that would explain your question about power and pumps that was easy to read and straight forward with all the information related to our application. So rather than type and type and type it all.....you can read, and read and read it all.
Here is the deal, and the key are pump curves and knowing where you lie on that curve. One of the most confusing and misunderstood things that people do when setting up thier tank are the return pumps. Most of the time, the mistakes we make are so minor, it doesn't matter, however when you get into larger flows and pressures and larger pumps the problems of a mismatched system are evident, and costly. This is why we get away with ignoring pump curves and buying the pumps FIRST rather than designing the system. Instead we go about it backwards and wonder why we have so many "problems" Pump selection should be based on the required flow, with a given and prededermined Total Dynamic Head, that is based on the plumbing design. Most problems occur when this is ignored for personal observations of others, based on what is usually a different setup than what you will have.
The key to pump selection is finding a pump that operates at it peak effeciency based on your system conditions. If not, the pump will not preform at its peak flow, pressure, which may vibrate or cavitate. The relations between these characteristics in pump applications such as ours are governed by the Affinity Laws as seen in one of the links. There is such a law that relates power used as discussed here, but there is nothing for free and the efficiencies and pump performances are changed.
It is true, throttling the suction does decrease the amperage draw, but this also shifts the duty point of the pump, creating a less efficient pump, which in turn can lessen flow or TDH. The main concern with suction throttling is it effect the Net Positive Suction Head and the increase possibility of cavitation, (another misdiagnosed reefer problem that is usually air entrainment instead), if the pump was already poorly matched with the system, this can only compound the system.
The Affinity laws also relate to impeller diameters, which I am suprised is not played with more in the hobby, by trimming or increasing the diameter of the impeller one can bring the system and pump curves in line to match the two, which in turn relates to Variable Frequency Drives that could be thought in regards to as "infinitly adjustable impellers". VFD's are cool because the shift the Best Efficiency point (BEP) of the pump.
Well, I didn't write "that" much.......lots going on though and may not be worth the pennies you may save in doing so.
Last edited:
jtarmitage
Active member
Ah yes, I've seen the donations. Thanks, just placed an order for a variety of goodies to try.
I think Sanjay was referring to a magnetic ballast. He was saying how the ballast was trying to provide the current the lamp was asking for when the lamp was old. In terms of electronic devices, magnetic ballasts are a very crude device.
I don't think an electronic ballast will allow for a current flow much beyond it's design. My IceCap 660 ballast label says it has a maximum line draw of 4.4 amps. I think accurate labeling is a requirement for UL listed devices.
It should be noted that there are losses in an electronic ballast (not nearly as much as in a magnetic ballast) and if 500 watts is going to the lamp there could be another 10+% in power used within the ballast because of how they function. Not that you can do anything about that anyway...
Aside from all that, using a killawatt meter, what devices have shown higher than rated current draw, and how much higher was the draw than the rating?
Warren,
Other uses for the Kilowatt is to determine the amount of energy usage on products that aren't on all the time or on at a preset amount of time. For example, heaters and chillers are not always on all the time, so using a kill-a-watt device is good. I also have used it on my refrigerator to see how much electricity it actually uses. The label on devices also does not show the spikes during startup. The kill-a-watt can be used to look for these spikes.
Last - I use the kill-a-watt for non-reef related items such as my computer and fridge. Just because I have a 200 watt power supply doesn't mean that I am always using 200 watt on my computer.
Steve - I used to have two of these devices. I loaned one out and can't remember who I loaned it to. Oh well....
Minh
Other uses for the Kilowatt is to determine the amount of energy usage on products that aren't on all the time or on at a preset amount of time. For example, heaters and chillers are not always on all the time, so using a kill-a-watt device is good. I also have used it on my refrigerator to see how much electricity it actually uses. The label on devices also does not show the spikes during startup. The kill-a-watt can be used to look for these spikes.
Last - I use the kill-a-watt for non-reef related items such as my computer and fridge. Just because I have a 200 watt power supply doesn't mean that I am always using 200 watt on my computer.
Steve - I used to have two of these devices. I loaned one out and can't remember who I loaned it to. Oh well....
Minh
Warren,
yes, the Kill-a-watt does show how much electricity you use over a period of time. The first time I used a kill-a-watt device was to determine how much electricity my old fridge was using. My old fridge was not very energy efficient. Using the number provided by the kill-a-watt, I determined that a new fridge would pay for itself in a few years (I can't remember the exact number). With that information, I purchased a new fridge.
I also used it on my computer system to determine how much it would cost to leave my computer on. We have also used the kill-a-watt at work to determine how much electricity some of our devices used in order to load balance our equipment over several circuit.
For some stuff, reading the UL label would be pretty accurate. For other devices, I would not trust the UL label for actual usage.
Minh
yes, the Kill-a-watt does show how much electricity you use over a period of time. The first time I used a kill-a-watt device was to determine how much electricity my old fridge was using. My old fridge was not very energy efficient. Using the number provided by the kill-a-watt, I determined that a new fridge would pay for itself in a few years (I can't remember the exact number). With that information, I purchased a new fridge.
I also used it on my computer system to determine how much it would cost to leave my computer on. We have also used the kill-a-watt at work to determine how much electricity some of our devices used in order to load balance our equipment over several circuit.
For some stuff, reading the UL label would be pretty accurate. For other devices, I would not trust the UL label for actual usage.
Minh
funman1
Active member
I let my tower of power run 24/7
I can't stand waiting 20 seconds for a machine to be up and running, when I sit down, I want it ready NOW.
I'm very impatient
Also I have my systems setup to run Virus Scans, defrags, and spyware scans late at night so it needs to be on for those.
I can't stand waiting 20 seconds for a machine to be up and running, when I sit down, I want it ready NOW.
I'm very impatient
Also I have my systems setup to run Virus Scans, defrags, and spyware scans late at night so it needs to be on for those.
kdblove_99
New member
I do the same 24/7 for the same reasons as steve
MayorOfWhoVille
New member
Thanks Minh, just ordered one. The promo code still works.
P.Kelly
New member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11915855#post11915855 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by funman1
I let my tower of power run 24/7
I can't stand waiting 20 seconds for a machine to be up and running, when I sit down, I want it ready NOW.
I'm very impatient
Oh, I just timed the restart from sleep with Vista and 2gb ram. 4 seconds, and another 6 after I enter my password.
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