Killer gramma?

stellablu

New member
I am at wits end over here...fish are disappearing, the culprit can be one of several things, and I am not having any luck figuring out who used what to kill whom in what room. Man, playing Clue was MUCH easier than keeping my fish alive!

Over the past few months I've had fish come up missing in my tank. All my perimeters check out fine and otherwise there aren't any issues with my tank at all. I figured some were bad stock, like a pink clown goby who lived in three of my tanks until one day showing up with tattered fins, then "disappearing." I also lost a pretty healthy firefish, rainsford goby and a copperband, then until last night the last fish I had lost was a clownfish. These were all fat and healthy fish with big appetites. Well, yesterday I ruled out it being a mantis, or assumed that it wasn't when I paid closer mind to the frequency of the snapping. I could be wrong, but I don't think a mantis would do something to tatter fins and leave the rest of the fish alone...

I bought a midas blenny and coral beauty yesterday. Both are healthy and active, although the CB was shy at first and hid in the rocks. Both were fatties. My royal gramma started stalking the midas who perched in a rock too close to his. He would literally follow him around the tank with his mouth wide open and snap at anyone getting in his way. This behavior leads me to think that this normally "peaceful" species has been getting overly territorial with the left side of the tank and being that all the fish who have died/disappeared were in the rockwork on that side, it seems to make sense to me that my gramma might have harrassed and possibly killed them.

Here's a list of the fish I have in my tank:
- False percula clown
- Tail Spot blenny
- Midas blenny
- Leopard wrasse
- Royal gramma
- Lyretail anthias

None of my fish display any aggressive behavior whatsoever. The gramma just swims around the back of the tank like a shark, really creepy personality.

Has anyone else had experience with a gramma turned bad? I am really going to hate trying to catch him and house him alone in my 12g since he has issues. I wouldn't want to give him to someone else and have the same thing happen to their tank, or trade him in and not know where he'd go and what damage he might do. I've lost $150 worth of fish over the past few months without any explanation, so I wouldn't want that to happen to someone else.

Here are a few pictures of the dead coral beauty, I DID manage to get ahold of his body before the nassarius cleaned up the mess. He was in the rockwork where the gramma's hole is located; he was partially lying in this massive aiptasia that was probably trying to make a morning snack out of him, but his body was still intact except for some tissue damage near his gills. Anyone recognize it as a bitemark, or anything else?

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I'd appreciate any ideas. Thanks.
 
could be the gramma they are very aggressive fish.......especially if it was one of the first fish added to the tank, he will terroize all new commers.......
 
I had a gramma for a while that got very territorial and somewhat aggressive on occassion toward my other fish.

Eventually figured that the best thing to do was to get rid of him. He used to try nipping at my clowns and wrasse. Figured no need to stress out the other fish unnecessarily.
 
Royal Grammas are aggressive to their own species primarily. They are very territorial and defend their little turf in the tank, but I'd be really surprised if it could kill a Coral Beauty. I've had many RGs over the years, and I've never seen one attack another fish.
 
I've had them snap, but mostly defending about a half a foot of favorite reef area. Not one to chase anything around a tank, in my experience, and I have had them with firefish. Of course we had the world's nastiest damsels to keep everything else looking over figurative shoulders.
 
I saw my gramma liplock an anthias almost 3 times it's size and hold it there for a couple minutes.
I was really surprised at it's strength.
Anthias got too close to home, and hasn't gone near it since.
Weird thing is I have a small yellow clown goby that perches real close w/ no prob.
If you're hearing any clicking though I'd be thinking mantis
 
My RG is boss of the tank. I have never seen him nip or physically attack another tank mate but, I have seen him open his mouth wide if others get too close to him. I don't believe he has claimed a specific part of the tank as his own. He just has personal space issues. He is the "Grumpy Old Man" of my tank!
 
I hear a clicking, but it's a single click at a time instead of multiple. Plus about six months ago I had a Randall's pistol in there, but haven't seen him since I put him in.

Also, my gramma is one of my oldest fish in there and is also the largest and fattest. He is full size and the CB was just over two inches and stuck behind unfamiliar rockwork scared. After the gramma displaying that behavior toward my midas, and snapping at my leopard wrasse (my baby) when he got inbetween the midas and the gramma, it seems clear that someone is too nasty for my tank. Even if he didn't kill the other fish, I don't want anyone terrorizing the other tankmates.

It's funny that you mention clown goby, davo, because he leaves my smallest fish, the tail spot blenny alone. I think it's because the tail spot sleeps in his own hole on the right side of the tank that is just big enough for him to fit into...no one could get that tiny guy is they tried. :)

It's amazing that so many people report them being aggressive or prone to be aggressive, because it's been a fish I've always recommended as a great, peaceful starter fish. Well, I guess I've got to help someone pack their bags up...wish me luck!

And thank you!
 
i was gonna go with the aiptasia. they eat anything. notice most of the fish you lost were small. here's my theory. the gramma stressed them out. when the fish would run in between the rocks they'd fall victem to the aiptasia. that could explain tatered fins. that or the gramma gave him wounds and the aiptasia took advantage of their weekness. lets remember how tough and nasty aiptasia are.

that's my .2 cents :)
 
bi color dotty backs look a lot like royal grammas. they are sold as royal gramma's often. can you take a pic of you're gramma and post it? i had a bi-colored dotty back kill 5 or 6 fish before i figured out what was going on.
 
That's odd, my Midas Blenny is quite the bully in my tank.

Has hassled every flasher wrasse or dart goby [firefish/bar goby] I've put in the terribly.

IMO, they all can be. I would consider altering the left side of his tank or wherever it gets really territorial. Sometimes such alterations can help [or not] as the gramma's safe haven he hassles other fish from is gone/changed then ... more of an even playing field IMO. Just a thought.
 
Thanks, Mark. I'll give that a try and see if his temperment changes a bit before pulling all the rock out of my tank to catch him.

I hope my midas doesn't turn aggressive, right now he's very outgoing and friendly, always dancing in the front of the tank for food or attention. He slept inside a large toadstool last night to keep watch on the gramma's whereabouts. I plan on adding more wrasses, so hopefully it won't be too much of an issue. Thanks!
 
All you with problem grammas - How (if you did) did you get them out? I have a trapeze (fish trap) that has worked well for every other species, but my gramma won't go in. He'll swim on top, behind and to the side, but I can't get him to go in!

Any tips besides removing all rock or draining nearly all water?

Thanks!
 
I was VERY lucky that he burrowed himself in a piece of live rock that was at the very top of my tank, so all we had to do was take out that piece and watch him fall out into the bucket.

Check to see if yours has hiding spot in the rockwork. If you can get him that way it would be awesome. Otherwise, it seemed like I was going to have to take everything out of the tank. :(

Good luck!
 
Wow, my gramma has never given me any problems whatsoever and I have had him/her for about a year and a half now. All of the fish constantly swim by it's hole and it never even pays attention. I have all of these fish with it and most of them were added after.

- Small Naso Tang
- Small Blue/Hippo Tang
- Flame Angel
- Cherub Angel
- GBM Clown
- Rainford Goby
- Red-Headed Goby
- Midas Blenny
- Sleeper Banded Goby

It was also kept in a 29 gallon tank for about a year with three other fish and no problems. I hope that was the culprit and you don't have any more problems! Keep us updated...
 
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