LaCl Reactor

[karimwassef]

Here's my refugium growth over two weeks:

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/81EE9164-248C-454B-BBCD-97954044135D_zpsfisrpetk.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/81EE9164-248C-454B-BBCD-97954044135D_zpsfisrpetk.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 81EE9164-248C-454B-BBCD-97954044135D_zpsfisrpetk.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/12C10112-45BB-4135-B1C4-94F73DD2A274_zpsvxsxzfrd.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/12C10112-45BB-4135-B1C4-94F73DD2A274_zpsvxsxzfrd.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 12C10112-45BB-4135-B1C4-94F73DD2A274_zpsvxsxzfrd.jpg"/></a>

I export about a quart a week.

 

[insomniac2k2]

That's some crazy growth. I started seeing growth like that after my tank switch. Before this, my tank was perfect for years. God I miss those days

ATM, im upping my CUC and dose rate. Planning a nice a slow cleanup period, as to avoid any major complications. I figure it will take several months at my present rate.

You may want to consider a bunch of court jester goby. They would be in heaven in that mess!

 

[slief]

The ATM dosage guideline is 1ml per gal per day for every 1ppm reduction.

I use a 1440ml RODI solution with 120ml of ATM. Dosing the solution at 10ml an hour (240ml a day) so that's the equivalent of 20ml a day.

At 60ml, my tangs were breathing heavy. At 30ml, they're not. I went to 20ml to be on the safe side.

Thanks for the immediate assumption that I'm doing something wrong, but all my 20 fish are healthy and eating well.

I have an macro algae refugium that is overgrown weekly, so my phosphates are not just high, they're very high. The test kit doesn't mean anything, but my algae growth does.

Thanks for the clarification. Your original post indicated 20 ml a day of the ATM stuff. Not 20ml a day of a mixture consisting of 120ml ATM stuff that has been diluted into 1.4 liters of RODI. That is a monumental difference and makes a heck of a lot more sense. People read these threads and take information for granted. I'd hate to see somebody read a post and kill all of their fish by dosing 20ml a day of LaCl. That would be a recipe for disaster.

That said, if the fish were breathing heavy at 60ml, some precipitate was making it out of your skimmer back into the water. A filter sock on the skimmers effluent wouldn't be a bad idea at all. Even though the fish aren't breathing hard and everybody seems happy, rest assured that some of the precipitate is probably making back into the water column despite the lower dose. If that is the case, it's counter productive as some of that precipitate may break down again into Po4. It is also bad for the fishes gills. Think of it this way. Millions of people smoke and don't just drop dead. That doesn't mean their lungs are suffering as a result.

Enough of that. That's some crazy macro growth!! What are your Po4 levels? And 100 gallons a week in water changes? You need to change your username to KrazyKarim!! That's a lot. You are an ambitious man! I have about 650 gallons in my system with close to 70 fish including several very large tangs that eat like horses and I only change out 5 gallons a day for 35 gallons a week. Where ya getting all of your salt water and why are you changing out so much?

 

[slief]

Post edited.

 

[karimwassef]

I use reef crystals 200g at $50. So it's about $100 a month.

My tank is 4 months old. I used sand from an old system and I expect it was saturated with phosphate even after days of washing.

I also made my own concrete rock, and washing my oyster shell probably helped, but that's another source.

I have my tank body in my garage and I live on a lake. In the summer, I was pulling dense netfulls of gnats and mosquitos. Even a minute of an open garage door at dusk is like a beacon with halides and UV LEDs.

I seeded my tank with uncured live rock.

One of my double ended halides had no UV protection for a few weeks (didn't notice it was off while I travelled). Heavy die off.

I dosed phyto heavily for the first two months to establish my pod's cycle.

Basically, I did (intentionally or not) everything possible (short of using tap water) to saturate my tank with phosphate.

 

[slief]

I use reef crystals 200g at $50. So it's about $100 a month.

My tank is 4 months old. I used sand from an old system and I expect it was saturated with phosphate even after days of washing.

I also made my own concrete rock, and washing my oyster shell probably helped, but that's another source.

I have my tank body in my garage and I live on a lake. In the summer, I was pulling dense netfulls of gnats and mosquitos. Even a minute of an open garage door at dusk is like a beacon with halides and UV LEDs.

I seeded my tank with uncured live rock.

One of my double ended halides had no UV protection for a few weeks (didn't notice it was off while I travelled). Heavy die off.

I dosed phyto heaviky for the first two months to establish my pod's cycle.

Basically, I did (intentionally or not) everything possible (short of using tap water) to saturate my tank with phosphate.

You will forever be KrazyKarim in my book! :beer:

Dare I ask what your Po4 levels are and were? Does the tester go that high? :lolspin:

 

[karimwassef]

With the volume of algae (hair and macro) in my system, my PO4 read at less that 0.1ppm which is clearly wrong.

 

[slief]

With the volume of algae (hair and macro) in my system, my PO4 read at less that 0.1ppm which is clearly wrong.

How big is this mass of macro? It looks to be at least 24"x24". If so, have you considered pulling out more than a quart a week? My chaeto mass looks to be about half that size and I can pull a gallon or more worth every 2 weeks. The more you prune, the more you export which I'm sure you already know.

Definitely sounds like you have some Po4 issues though. I've had most of my live rock for about 18 years. I know I've got a fair amount of embedded Po4. I manage it through semi annual Po4 dosing as I mentioned above along with my refugiiums and pruning. Sounds like you may be worse off than me. Curiously, have you tested your RODI water for Po4?

 

[karimwassef]

It's 24x24 and about 8" thick.

My RODI has a TDS of zero. I haven't tested for PO4 but I wouldn't expect anything after the DI stage.

 

[slief]

It's 24x24 and about 8" thick.

My RODI has a TDS of zero. I haven't tested for PO4 but I wouldn't expect anything after the DI stage.

That is insane. If it were me, I'd be removing a lot more every week. It will grow back and possibly grow even better if it's thinned out. You will also be removing more nutrients that way. My chaeto mass is about half the size of yours and I remove much more than you in my regular prunings and it seems to grow faster when I think the mass out while also keeping my Po4 levels lower.

 

[karimwassef]

Good point. It's full of pods and worms so I try to control the pruning. I've fed some back to my tangs but that just reinjects the nutrients in the DT.

I wish I had an effective pod extraction method beyond washing in a bucket.

 

[Philly guy]

The ATM dosage guideline is 1ml per gal per day for every 1ppm reduction.

I use a 1440ml RODI solution with 120ml of ATM. Dosing the solution at 10ml an hour (240ml a day) so that's the equivalent of 20ml a day.

At 60ml, my tangs were breathing heavy. At 30ml, they're not. I went to 20ml to be on the safe side

If I am reading this correctly you are dosing 20 ml of ATM per day. I have no idea of the strength of ATM relative to Sea Klear but assuming that they are roughly equivalent I would say 20 ml is about the max you should dose. I dilute about 60 ml in a gallon of RODI and dose that over a 2 week time frame in my 210 gallon system. That works out to an equivalent of about 4.25 ml of Sea Klear per day. Since your system is 3 times the size of mine, it would be like me dosing 14-15 ml per day.

 

[slief]

Good point. It's full of pods and worms so I try to control the pruning. I've fed some back to my tangs but that just reinjects the nutrients in the DT.

I wish I had an effective pod extraction method beyond washing in a bucket.

A good shaking in a bucket of salt water should remove most of them from the macro.. That said, with a macro mass the size of yours, you would hardly be making a dent in your pod population even if you didn't get many out. More over you would be making more room for new pod populations by thinning some of the existing population from your system. Then again, like you I hate loosing pods and even pluck arthropods from my filter socks and drop them back in the water when I swap my socks. Certainly more trouble than it's worth but it makes me feel better.

 

[karimwassef]

Me too. They just love filter sock folds!

 

[karimwassef]

Ok. Decided to get SeaKlear Phosphate Remover. That's what I ordered but I got something called "SeaKlear Phosphate Remover CR" for pools. Is this the right stuff?

There's no ingredients list.

 

[slief]

Ok. Decided to get SeaKlear Phosphate Remover. That's what I ordered but I got something called "SeaKlear Phosphate Remover CR" for pools. Is this the right stuff?

There's no ingredients list.

The CR has a lower amount of LaCl. I'm not sure if there are any other differences but it's not the commercial strength stuff that I use. For me personally, I wouldn't use the CR stuff. One reason is that my dosage amount is based on the commercial grade (non CR) stuff that I use. Secondly, I had conversations with SeaKlear and confirmed that the stuff I use is the same stuff/formula that they package for Public Aquarium use under a different label. Lastly, the CR stuff may have additional clarifiers in it which could cause issues and or be toxic.

From the SeaKlear website on the CR stuff:
SeaKlear Phosphate Remover CR is formulated to make phosphate removal simple. This new formulation ensures that you don’t overdose – a common issue with the high-powered commercial phosphate removers – and that your pool’s phosphate problem is a thing of the past.

Phosphates are known to be a major water pollutant. In your swimming pool they can cause numerous water quality issues including:
Discolored cloudy water
Poor water quality that leads to extra chemical
Excessive scale damage to heaters
Lower efficiency of salt generator systems

Quick Facts:
32 oz. removes at least 3,000ppb (parts per billion) orthophosphates per 10,000 gallons
Effectively eliminates phosphates sourced from cleaners, fertilizers, chemicals, and source water
Lower dose formula for controlled removal of orthophosphates
Compatible with all sanitizers and pool types
Made in the United States


From the SeaKlear website on the commercial grade stuff I use:
Our most powerful phosphate removal treatment. This best-in-class SeaKlear Phosphate Remover - Commercial Strength removes 9,000 ppb (parts per billion) pH (this must be a typo on their site and should say orthophosphates) in a single dose, in 10,000 gallons making it the optimal solution for commercial pools, service professionals, and to combat extreme phosphate problems.


Phosphates are known to be a major water pollutant. In your swimming pool they can cause numerous water quality issues including:
Discolored cloudy water
Poor water quality that leads to extra chemical
Excessive scale damage to heaters
Lower efficiency of salt generator systems


Quick Facts:
Best in class, one bottle of SeaKlear’s phosphate remover can replace up to 16.7 liters of similar products available in the industry.
In many cases only a single application is enough to achieve a near zero level of phosphates, saving owners and managers both time and money.
A specific tool to deal with only phosphates, unlike bulk phosphate removers which use messy chemicals
Guaranteed results
Made in the United States



This is my bottle.

 

[karimwassef]

Where do you get yours? Looks like the CR is 1/3 dose (3000 vs. 9000 ppb)

And how much was it?

 

[slief]

Where do you get yours? Looks like the CR is 1/3 dose (3000 vs. 9000 ppb)

And how much was it?

I got mine from a local pool supply store. It couldn't have been more than $30 but I might be a little off as I got it a couple years back. When you use it the way I do, it lasts a long long time. Anyway, here is a source. Not that cheap but it's the commercial version and the same stuff I use.
http://www.amazon.com/SeaKlear-Comm...04&sr=8-7&keywords=SeaKlear+Phosphate+remover


The other stuff might be fine but I'm just not sure if there is any other stuff in it that you wouldn't want in your tank. Plus, it's heavily diluted compared to the other stuff so it obviously won't go as far. Just be careful what ever you use because it's going to be a different concentration compared to your current ATM Po4 remover.. 5ml of the commercial SeaKlear diluted in 1 liter of RODI drops my Po4 by as much as .05 in my 650g system.

 

[karimwassef]

Ok. Got the hardcore SeaKlear stuff. Diluted 20ml into 1500ml of RODI and dosing 200ml a day of the mix into my 600gal system.

 

[insomniac2k2]

I really need to get the commercial stuff. I'm still running the CR version..