Thanks for the info. The reason why I asked was because I was assuming that you were dosing at a much faster rate than I do with the reactor. For the most part, it looks like you do.
It's all relative to water volume, but for the most part, I rarely see my PO4 numbers drop more than say .01-.03 in a weeks time. 2 things factor into this for me. Clog rates would naturally be much slower(for me). And since I use floss, there is a much more surface area (inconsistent mind you) to clog.
Have you ever noticed any issues with such a large drop in PO4? I've read elsewhere where others have seen SPS RTN and/or bleaching issues when treating PO4 rapidly. I have yet to put much weight in this. Im the kind of person that needs to see it first hand, or at least believe that it happened in a pretty consistent/controlled environment.
As I said, I have not noticed any ill effects of dropping my PO4 that quick and I will also note that I am dosing with a target PO4 level in mind and achieving that goal without any issues. While I have only dropped it that much in a single dose a couple times over the years, I've never noticed any issues with any of my soft corals, LPS or fish. I can't help but wonder if those that did have issues didn't use the sock method or didn't use a fine enough sock or worse, overdosed LaCl. Since corals are filter feeders, any precipitant in the water column could impact the corals negatively. As such, I would not be surprised that the above scenarios could cause bleaching or worse. I know that for the most part, those who lost fish during an LaCl treatment had one thing in common which was cloudy water. That in and of itself tells me they either dosed the LaCl too fast, or over dosed LaCl or didn't use the 10 micron socks or didn't change them out. If LaCl is used properly, there is no reason to have cloudy water and for the record, I've never experienced cloudy water from my use of LaCl.
I look at it this way. We have no way of knowing the water quality that our live stock comes from. When we acclimate them to our tanks water we do so over the course of an hour or two and in most cases, the water chemistry can be completely different. When I introduce new fish or corals, I can always assume that my water quality is better than what the livestock is coming from and my casualty rate for new inhabitants is extremely low. Most fish stores and wholesalers don't test for or worry about PO4 levels. As such, I'd bet that most sources have elevated levels of PO4 and it's certainly not something that we even give a second thought to when we introduce new livestock to our tanks. As such, I have a hard time believing that dropping the PO4 level too much is that much of a factor. That or maybe the 7 hours that I use to do it in is slow enough. For kicks and giggles, next time I bring a fish or coral home from my buddies LFS, I might just have to test their water for PO4 just to confirm my suspicion. If I were a betting man, I'd bet it was .30 or higher. I know my friend Jims who brings me fish from time to time has to have PO4 levels that are off the charts high. I know that just from looking at his QT systems.
First of all, sorry to hear about the problems you've had lately, and I hope you've gotten things under control and on the road to recovery, tank-wise. As a parent, having to deal with a situation like that with one of your kids is heart-breaking.
If I remember correctly, in the original thread about LC that is referenced on the first page of this thread, some pretty knowledgeable chemistry folks stated that the precipate should not break down in an aquarium environment. Not that I would want it building up, but it doesn't sound likely to release the phosphates back into the water column.
Thanks for the kind words. Kids can be a nightmare but things are back on track with him and the tank. Everything I did to haunt my parents came back to haunt me 10 fold. Something as a parent I was very ill prepared to deal with. Fortunately for my tank, I was very fortunate to have hundreds of gallons of water on hand and cases of salt. I was also fortunate that my LFS was only a call and 5 minutes away with plenty of Amquel and NovAqua.
It could have been a total loss and instead I was able to get my tank back on track very quickly and avoid loosing anything other than the fish. I've always been well prepared for virtually anything that could go wrong with my tank and keep spare pumps, Apex controllers and lots of other items on hand for worst case scenarios. This is one I never could have dreamed of yet I was a heck of a lot more prepared than I could have imagined. By all rights, it could have easily have been a complete loss of a 10 year old reef. It's been 10 years now since my last overhaul and fortunately, everything is back to normal. I feel very lucky. My son should too as I was ready to kill him (figuratively speaking). Instead I called the police to let them deal with him so I could focus on my tank. Hopefully he has learned a lesson and is wiser as a result. I know I always learned the hard way by learning from my mistakes and I don't think the apple fell far from the tree. I documented the incident and my process for saving the tank in my build thread as well as in the Reef Chemistry section here. If you are morbidly curious about the details (which I would be), feel free to check out my build thread or the other thread I started. I made sure to document it in case others faced a similar scenario.
Back on topic.. I used that thread you mentioned as the basis for my LaCl dosing method and ratios. While the precipitant may be said to not break down, I'm not sure I totally agree. The precipitant in my mind (and I could be wrong) is nothing more than solidified PO4. As such, I would have a hard time believing that it won't break back down at some point but regardless, it should not be in the tank. To me, it would be very similar to PO4 that is embedded in the rocks and substrate. At some point it leaches back out into the water. The one thing that was very consistant in that thread was the use of the 10 micron socks to catch and export the precipitant. The protein skimmer will help remove most of it assuming it's a good skimmer and assuming all the LaCl effluent is run through it but it's not going to catch all of it which is why I am a firm believer in the 10 micron sock.
At the very least, the precipitant is small enough to remain or become easily suspended in the water column and it's also been known to impact the health of the fish. I know it's been know to kill tangs but I'm also sure the precipitant isn't good for the other tank inhabitants as well. Either way, it is something that really should be captured and exported before it makes its way into the system. If it isn't, it will build up over time which can't possibly be good. Hopefully the filter floss and other methods (media filters, socks and skimmers) employed with the reactors are removing it completely.
You LaCl reactor guys are pioneers. It's a big gray area as nothing has really been documented over the long term to really know what the long term impacts are. So far, it certainly seems like the concept works well and it's applaudable for those who dare to go there. For me, I prefer my method as it's very simple and somewhat fool proof. It also doesn't require my constant attention let alone futzing with it to get it dialed in. Being that I am not a maintenance kind of guy, I'd go nuts if I had to continually chase a magic PO4 level. That is not to say that down the line I wouldn't consider such a build. I am in fact a gadget guy and I do like reactors so if I ever really felt I could benefit from one, I'd be all over it.
In my case, I could care less about my PO4 levels as long as my tank is healthy which it pretty much always is in spite of my occasional elevated PO4 levels. If I start seeing some nuisance algae, I know it's time to check my PO4. Other than that, I use good GFO and 0 TDS RODI water for top offs and automated water changes. As such, I've never had any issues short of the very rare algae bloom which I can always rectify quickly.
Having said that, I did just stock up on a bunch of new Hanna ULR test regents so I will be testing my PO4 levels much more often or at least monthly. Ugh, I can't believe I am saying that. I really hate testing my water. In all honesty, my water quality is always perfect with the rare exception of the elevated PO4. As such, I've gotten to the point after having this particular tank for 20 years now, that I never really need to test my water. When I do, it's always perfect and PO4 is one of those things that I can look at my tank or any other one for that matter and know when the PO4 levels are truly too high. That said, I don't think .05 or even .07 is really too high but then again, I don't profess to be an expert on PO4. I only know what works for me. Heck, even when I hit .20 or .30, I didn't notice any of my corals being unhappy. The only ill effects of the elevated PO4 was seeing some nuisance algae.
Sorry for the long winded ramble of a post. I seem to excel in the long winded ramble department!