Lanthanum reactor

[nanomania]

Those that tried the LaCl reactor idea, seemed to spend a lot of time chasing numbers in what I consider to be a somewhat futile endeavor. Having used LaCl for years, I don't suggest using a reactor. Their is risk involved for the fish and as I said, you end up chasing numbers and have to constantly adjust dosages. LaCl needs to be administered properly. The precipiate can harm and or kill fish. Clouding of the water is a sign that you're doing it wrong and endangering your livestock. I use an IV bag and drip my solution at a rate of 1 drop per second. I dilute 2.5ml of LaCl into 1 liter of water and dose that over the course of several hours. 1 drop a second. That will drop my 650 gallon volume by .025 to .03 ppm. I dose into a 10 micron felt sock to catch the precipiate. I monitor my tank the entire dose to make sure that there is no clouding. I don't want to kill my fish! I also monitor my filter sock as it tends to back up as the precipiate clogs the sock.

Here is the thread on the subject of LaCl reactors.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2288470

For me, diluting LaCl into RODI water and dripping it into a 10 micron or smaller micron sock is the safest way to go and insures you remove the precipiate. Different LaCl sources are more pure than others so be careful when taking somebodies advice on how much of what solution to dissolve in water let alone to admisiter to your tank. Especially without knowing your total system volume, your Po4 numbers, your target numbers etc. You are asking for trouble. Also, if you have corals in your tank or anemones, I wouldn't suggest dropping your Po4 anymore than .03 ppm a day.


I suggest using the commercial blend of SeaKlear LaCl. Not SeaKlear CR but the non CR blend. SeaKlear packages the same stuff for public aquariums.

Lastly, it seems you already saw this thread since you posted in it but I strongly suggest you read the entire thread! I read this entire thread (every post) before deciding to dose LaCl. I learned a lot from this thread and it armed me with enough information to do it reasonably safely. In the end, if you kill your fish or kill your livestock, you have only yourself to blame. As such, you would be doing yourself a favor to take the time to read this thread to learn as much as possible before using harmful chemicals in your tank that you may know little about. The simple fact that you found that thread is a great start.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1474839


LaCl can be dangerous to your aquarium as mentioned above. You really need to do your homework and that rhea is a great source of information. I'd be surprised if anybody is intimately familiar with the powder form you are planning on using but if anything, reading that entire thread may yield information on it. You also need to be 100% sure of your Po4 levels. I don't think any standard color based test will give you accurate enough numbers to dose LaCl with. I strongly suggest a Hanna HI746 ULR Phosphorus tester. NOT the HI713 phosphate tester.

This is my setup for dosing LaCl. Like I said, I have been using the stuff for years now without issue but I use the same method every time. I dose very slowly. I monitor my tank like a hawk during the process and I change the socks out as they plug up.

The IV Bag dripping the solution

The solution going into the 10 micron sock

Really nice writeup. Thanks.. iv read that seaklear has lanthanum chloride along with lanthanum sulfate. The reason im asking for correct proportion of lc 99.99% powder in water is because im from india and we dont get seaklear here. so i have no option. Also its only available to me as im into chemical business and its not that easily available. I saw some swimmingpool po4 products but they dont have ingredients written on them nor the company discloses their ingredients.

Also whats the reason for buyin phosphorous checker instead of po4?

I too am looking to lower po4 at a very slow pace.

Also as u use 10 micron, im sure still some might be getting out once the sock floods. Does it create issue? U keep skimmer right after the sock? U dont have a refugium?

I find ur method more simple n easy to maintain though.

 

[bertoni]

I'd try for a 5 micron sock, and yes, it could clog fairly rapidly, so I'd be cautious about using it. I might take it out of the tank after every application of lanthanum chloride.

If you mean the Hanna Phosphorus ULR Checker vs the Phosphate Checker, the Phosphorus ULR is more accurate at lower levels, but can't read as wide a range. Most people choose the Phosphorus ULR. Both units measure only phosphate, despite the names.

 

[slief]

Really nice writeup. Thanks.. iv read that seaklear has lanthanum chloride along with lanthanum sulfate. The reason im asking for correct proportion of lc 99.99% powder in water is because im from india and we dont get seaklear here. so i have no option. Also its only available to me as im into chemical business and its not that easily available. I saw some swimmingpool po4 products but they dont have ingredients written on them nor the company discloses their ingredients.

Also whats the reason for buyin phosphorous checker instead of po4?

I too am looking to lower po4 at a very slow pace.

Also as u use 10 micron, im sure still some might be getting out once the sock floods. Does it create issue? U keep skimmer right after the sock? U dont have a refugium?

I find ur method more simple n easy to maintain though.

As Bertoni said, the ULR checker is more accurate at the ultra low ranges we are testing at or aiming for. I've seen the Hanna 713 read 0 even at .07.. That said, the HI736 ULR Phosphorus tester is the one that Hanna certifies for marine use and is noted as a "marine" checker where as the HI713 is not.

Also as Bertoni said, I would remove the sock after treatment. I normally run 200 micron socks but swap one to a 10 micron during treatment. The idea is to use the sock to catch the precipitate. Once you are done with the treatment, you remove the sock. A 5 micron sock is even better as noted but I've found the 10 to be sufficient when dosing at a very slow rate. You also want to have good water flow through the sock when you are dosing.

As for SeaKlear having Lanthanum sulfate, maybe that is the CR blend but the SeaKlear bottle I posted above is the same stuff that is repacked for the public aquarium industry. I've used that stuff for years without issue. I used to drop my Po4 by .06ppm per treatment (5ml LaCl to 1 liter RODI) but reduced that drop because my giant RBTA doesn't like the big drop and moves to another side of his rock where he bugs my corals. As such, the .03 drop a day followed by another .03 drop the next day is the route I have gone the last couple years so as to not **** my BTA off. He's been in the same spot in my tank for nearly 10 years and I don't want it moving! I only thread every several months when my Po4 climbs back up to around .10 to .12. I do run GFO as well but feed heavily. Plus my tank has been up and running for over 18 years and I know I have bound Po4 in the rocks. As such, Po4 is always something I need to manage on top of GFO.

As for my skimmer, it is in the same area of my sump that my socks are located.

Regarding your 99% pure LaCl, I would certainly trust Bertoni's advice but I would caution you to go very slow and test a lot so you know exactly how your dose is impacting your Po4 levels. Watch your tank and socks like a hawk. As I said, any clouding is a bad sign. You are going to need to figure out your own dosing regiment for your water volume since you are likely not going to use the SeaKlear stuff that is more widely used by us hobbyists. If you do choose to use the SeaKlear stuff, 5ml of LaCl will drop a 650 gallon volume by .05-.06 ppm Po4. You just need to dilute the treatment in 1 liter of RODI and drip it slowly into the sock.

 

[nanomania]

As Bertoni said, the ULR checker is more accurate at the ultra low ranges we are testing at or aiming for. I've seen the Hanna 713 read 0 even at .07.. That said, the HI736 ULR Phosphorus tester is the one that Hanna certifies for marine use and is noted as a "marine" checker where as the HI713 is not.

Also as Bertoni said, I would remove the sock after treatment. I normally run 200 micron socks but swap one to a 10 micron during treatment. The idea is to use the sock to catch the precipitate. Once you are done with the treatment, you remove the sock. A 5 micron sock is even better as noted but I've found the 10 to be sufficient when dosing at a very slow rate. You also want to have good water flow through the sock when you are dosing.

As for SeaKlear having Lanthanum sulfate, maybe that is the CR blend but the SeaKlear bottle I posted above is the same stuff that is repacked for the public aquarium industry. I've used that stuff for years without issue. I used to drop my Po4 by .06ppm per treatment (5ml LaCl to 1 liter RODI) but reduced that drop because my giant RBTA doesn't like the big drop and moves to another side of his rock where he bugs my corals. As such, the .03 drop a day followed by another .03 drop the next day is the route I have gone the last couple years so as to not **** my BTA off. He's been in the same spot in my tank for nearly 10 years and I don't want it moving! I only thread every several months when my Po4 climbs back up to around .10 to .12. I do run GFO as well but feed heavily. Plus my tank has been up and running for over 18 years and I know I have bound Po4 in the rocks. As such, Po4 is always something I need to manage on top of GFO.

As for my skimmer, it is in the same area of my sump that my socks are located.

Regarding your 99% pure LaCl, I would certainly trust Bertoni's advice but I would caution you to go very slow and test a lot so you know exactly how your dose is impacting your Po4 levels. Watch your tank and socks like a hawk. As I said, any clouding is a bad sign. You are going to need to figure out your own dosing regiment for your water volume since you are likely not going to use the SeaKlear stuff that is more widely used by us hobbyists. If you do choose to use the SeaKlear stuff, 5ml of LaCl will drop a 650 gallon volume by .05-.06 ppm Po4. You just need to dilute the treatment in 1 liter of RODI and drip it slowly into the sock.

Means i can start with derkroon method of 800mg in 500ml of water. As 250ml trears 1250ltr, mine is jus 200ltr. So i guess ill need to make only 40ml. Can i dose this in a span of 10hrs? Shud it be less or more? Is there any way to keep po4 in chk using on LC, like maybe a drop or 2 every day or every other day depending on po4 levels and as i too will be keeping 2 filter socks, so can keep a 10micron and other 200micron. Currently we use aluminium oxide n not gfo as it falls very expensive here in india as we need to import them, 3times the cost u guys pay. Though never had any issue using aluminium oxide.

 

[bertoni]

We would need to know the water volume of the tank and the current phosphate level to make any recommendations about dosing.

 

[nanomania]

We would need to know the water volume of the tank and the current phosphate level to make any recommendations about dosing.

200l and po4 is .75
As per salifert

 

[bertoni]

Well, if the numbers from the company are correct, it'd take about 80 ml of their product to drop the phosphate level to zero. So if you mix to their strength, I might drip 10 ml slowly, and see what the results are.