Large Tank IN a Basement-Ventilation Suggestoin Please oh brethern of the mamoth tank
- Thread starter skippyreef
- Start date
capncapo
New member
Chris,
Yes, you would be accomplishing the same thing without having to buy a dehumidifier.
No, you would be using considerably more energy ( about twice as much ) by running both units at the same time.
Yes they work pretty much the same but a dehumidifier typically uses a cold surface instead of a coil.
Bottom line is that it would be a huge waste of money to have a furnace and an A/C "dueling" with each other.
The whole purpose of the suggested modification is to alleviate the humidity for little to no additional cost.
Like Mantis pointed out, the humiidity is actually desired by many folks during winter. Where I live, many people have humdiifiiers installed for use during the winter months. They eliminate many undesireables such as static shocks from walkng across carpeting and nosebleeds from dry air. The humidity also allows for a reduced thermostat setting while retaining the same "comfort level". With the projected hike in energy prices this winter ( up to 75% ) I would think that the very easy and inexpensive mod would appeal to anyone who lives in an area that gets cold.
Yes, you would be accomplishing the same thing without having to buy a dehumidifier.
No, you would be using considerably more energy ( about twice as much ) by running both units at the same time.
Yes they work pretty much the same but a dehumidifier typically uses a cold surface instead of a coil.
Bottom line is that it would be a huge waste of money to have a furnace and an A/C "dueling" with each other.
The whole purpose of the suggested modification is to alleviate the humidity for little to no additional cost.
Like Mantis pointed out, the humiidity is actually desired by many folks during winter. Where I live, many people have humdiifiiers installed for use during the winter months. They eliminate many undesireables such as static shocks from walkng across carpeting and nosebleeds from dry air. The humidity also allows for a reduced thermostat setting while retaining the same "comfort level". With the projected hike in energy prices this winter ( up to 75% ) I would think that the very easy and inexpensive mod would appeal to anyone who lives in an area that gets cold.
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mwood
Premium Member
The added humidity is a good argument in theory, but I'm a little concerned about it in practice. I woke up to a lot of moisture on my windows this past weekend. I own a new home here in Iowa. When temps dipped down around freezing, the condensation build up pretty quick on the windows. I currently have 80% humidity in the basement and 50-60% on the main floor. Distributing that 80% around the house scares me a little as I don't want to see more water on the windows.
Marcus
Marcus
capncapo
New member
Marcus,
Too much humidity is just that, too much humidity and it will quite possibly take a combination of methods to keep yours in check.
Your new home is most likely fairly tight and efficient so it's not likely that you will have any leaks where dry air can make it's way into the house or that humid air can make its way out.
Do you have an electric or 90% efficient furnace? Neither of these allow humidity to escape up the flue.
If your home is super insulated, even an 80% efficient gas furnace may not run enough to be effective at removing an excessive amount of humidity.
Your best choice may be to go with an HRV to allow some of the humidity to escape as well as some of it beng distributed throughout your living spaces.
Too much humidity is just that, too much humidity and it will quite possibly take a combination of methods to keep yours in check.
Your new home is most likely fairly tight and efficient so it's not likely that you will have any leaks where dry air can make it's way into the house or that humid air can make its way out.
Do you have an electric or 90% efficient furnace? Neither of these allow humidity to escape up the flue.
If your home is super insulated, even an 80% efficient gas furnace may not run enough to be effective at removing an excessive amount of humidity.
Your best choice may be to go with an HRV to allow some of the humidity to escape as well as some of it beng distributed throughout your living spaces.
mwood
Premium Member
I have a train gas furnace. I'm not sure of the efficiency factor, but it doesn't have a pvc air intake, so I don't think it's a high effeceincy furnace. I just bought a 65 pint dehumidifier and may add a vent to the cold air to see what happens. If I don't like it I can always close it. What is a HRV?
capncapo
New member
http://energyoutlet.com/res/hrv/
http://www.toolbase.org/techinv/techManufacturers.aspx?technologyID=122
http://yourhome.honeywell.com/Consu...ucts/Ventilation/Energy+Efficient/Default.htm
Tons more info on the web. Do a search on HRV or air exchanger.
http://www.toolbase.org/techinv/techManufacturers.aspx?technologyID=122
http://yourhome.honeywell.com/Consu...ucts/Ventilation/Energy+Efficient/Default.htm
Tons more info on the web. Do a search on HRV or air exchanger.
capncapo
New member
With money not being an issue I would think that an A/C unit dedicated to the fish room only in conjunction with a good sized dehumidifier could solve the humidity problem to a satisfactory degree.
The A/C unit would run long enough to satisfy the thermostat (and would be dehumidifying while running ) and would cycle off and on as needed. The dehumidifer would run 24/7.
The A/C unit would run long enough to satisfy the thermostat (and would be dehumidifying while running ) and would cycle off and on as needed. The dehumidifer would run 24/7.
law086
Premium Member
Thanks - can you comment on how well an AC unit alone would lend to the job? I'm guessing my future fish room will be in the area of 60-70 sq ft and I have no problems running an AC unit in just that room.
I live in the northeast, so heat and humidity is typically only a big problem a few months out of the year.
Ron
I live in the northeast, so heat and humidity is typically only a big problem a few months out of the year.
Ron
capncapo
New member
An A/C should do you fairly well provided that the thermostat in the room is set reasonably low. You want the unit to run at least part of the time when your lights are off otherwise you'll only be dehumidifying 8 hours or so a day.
One other suggestion would be to look at a "mini-split" A/C instead of a window unit. As far as I'm concerned, window units just don't seem to dehumidify as well as "normal" units do. A mini-split system is for all intents and purposes identical to a normal central air unit except smaller.
One other suggestion would be to look at a "mini-split" A/C instead of a window unit. As far as I'm concerned, window units just don't seem to dehumidify as well as "normal" units do. A mini-split system is for all intents and purposes identical to a normal central air unit except smaller.
law086
Premium Member
Just thinking out loud here, but looking at a unit like this:
http://www.air-conditioners-america.com/product.asp?product=MPF-10ER
It's removes about 15 gallons of moisture per day. That sounds like a whole lot to me, with 10,000 BTU's of cooling power to boot.
Doesn't something like that sound like a home run? What am I missing? I doubt many tanks evorporate more than 15g per day. $429, and no window needed.
Ron
http://www.air-conditioners-america.com/product.asp?product=MPF-10ER
It's removes about 15 gallons of moisture per day. That sounds like a whole lot to me, with 10,000 BTU's of cooling power to boot.
Doesn't something like that sound like a home run? What am I missing? I doubt many tanks evorporate more than 15g per day. $429, and no window needed.
Ron
capncapo
New member
Theoretically, it sounds great BUT I have never seen an air condtioner that needs nowhere to put the heat.
Air conditioners are not designed to "make" cold air. They are designed to move heat from one place to another. That particular unit moves the heat to where? It never leaves the room so how does it make a room cool?
In my experience, you get what you pay for and you're not paying much for a unit that promises an awful lot. Personally, I would look elsewhere.
Air conditioners are not designed to "make" cold air. They are designed to move heat from one place to another. That particular unit moves the heat to where? It never leaves the room so how does it make a room cool?
In my experience, you get what you pay for and you're not paying much for a unit that promises an awful lot. Personally, I would look elsewhere.
skippyreef
New member
if I were to do an independant A/C I would opt for teh split A/C unit myself.
caoncapo,
I just found this thread and have read through the whole thing. Excellent thread for an issue I'm not sure enough people take into consideration.
I'm planning a fish room for a 500gal or so system in a house that isn't even built yet. Will have the fish room on the main level of the house and viewing area will be the family room. I thought I needed to address heat, cooling and moisture. From the links you posted on on the ERV/HRV systems, seems this is a good way to go. Looks like the ERV/HRV could take care of the humidity issue pretty well. Is that accurate?
I had planned on venting heat from the lighting box to the outside using a fan on one end to push air into the box, another fan to pull it out and up through some flexiduct to an outside vent. Would that still be needed with a ERV/HRV?
As for the chiller, I had planned on letting it vent into the room. Hadn't figured out a plausible way to vent to outside on this one.
Any advice would be appreciated.
Steve
I just found this thread and have read through the whole thing. Excellent thread for an issue I'm not sure enough people take into consideration.
I'm planning a fish room for a 500gal or so system in a house that isn't even built yet. Will have the fish room on the main level of the house and viewing area will be the family room. I thought I needed to address heat, cooling and moisture. From the links you posted on on the ERV/HRV systems, seems this is a good way to go. Looks like the ERV/HRV could take care of the humidity issue pretty well. Is that accurate?
I had planned on venting heat from the lighting box to the outside using a fan on one end to push air into the box, another fan to pull it out and up through some flexiduct to an outside vent. Would that still be needed with a ERV/HRV?
As for the chiller, I had planned on letting it vent into the room. Hadn't figured out a plausible way to vent to outside on this one.
Any advice would be appreciated.
Steve
skippyreef
New member
Capn'
I got the fan installed this last weekend and have it on a cap-1 controller. I also have been monitoring the intrinsic humidity of the basment and temp. I run a RH of 45-50% at 65 degrees down there right now. I am adding a 60" wide 42" tall window in the spring to add more light also.
I think with temp being low I might not evaporate as much water as I do out of my liitle tank on the first floor which averages 9 degree's higher. I also have a little window in the utility room that can be opened a little for make up air this winter directly into the room.
Suddenly I am thinking that cooling and evaporation may be ok and it will be more of a challenge to keep the tank warm enough
I got the fan installed this last weekend and have it on a cap-1 controller. I also have been monitoring the intrinsic humidity of the basment and temp. I run a RH of 45-50% at 65 degrees down there right now. I am adding a 60" wide 42" tall window in the spring to add more light also.
I think with temp being low I might not evaporate as much water as I do out of my liitle tank on the first floor which averages 9 degree's higher. I also have a little window in the utility room that can be opened a little for make up air this winter directly into the room.
Suddenly I am thinking that cooling and evaporation may be ok and it will be more of a challenge to keep the tank warm enough
law086
Premium Member
capncapo - I would ASSume an AC unit like that would have a vent that you'd have to hook into a window. I guess my statement about not needing a window wouldn't exactly be true. If it doesn't.. then, yeah, good point, what happens to the warm air.
Thanks for all your comments.
Ron
Thanks for all your comments.
Ron
capncapo
New member
Steve,
While HRV/ERVs sound like the perfect solution, they have their limitations.
For example:
ERVs are supposed to remove humidity from incoming air and send it out with the exhaust air and they do .... but only to a certain degree. If you live in an area where the relative humidity remains low most of the time they will do you good but, in that case, so would anything that exchanges outdoor air for indooor air.
If you live in an area with high relatiive humidity, the dessicant wheel that does the transfer of humidity becomes saturated so quickly that it becomes ineffective almost immediately.
Also, ERVs are supposed to retain a percentage of the cool air that you would otherwise be ventiing outdoors. Great concept EXCEPT for the fact that folks with reef tanks hardly ever vent cool air. Even when the lights are off we are still heatiing the rooms because we keep our tanks at normal reef temperatures which are higher temperatures than most people keep their homes in warm weather.
When it comes to reef tank setups, I'm not a big fan of ERVs for those two reasons but, then again, I live in an area with a high relative humidity and keep my thermostat temperature set below the temperature that I keep my tanks.
HRVs are great but have a limited season as they are for use in cool/cold weather.
While HRV/ERVs sound like the perfect solution, they have their limitations.
For example:
ERVs are supposed to remove humidity from incoming air and send it out with the exhaust air and they do .... but only to a certain degree. If you live in an area where the relative humidity remains low most of the time they will do you good but, in that case, so would anything that exchanges outdoor air for indooor air.
If you live in an area with high relatiive humidity, the dessicant wheel that does the transfer of humidity becomes saturated so quickly that it becomes ineffective almost immediately.
Also, ERVs are supposed to retain a percentage of the cool air that you would otherwise be ventiing outdoors. Great concept EXCEPT for the fact that folks with reef tanks hardly ever vent cool air. Even when the lights are off we are still heatiing the rooms because we keep our tanks at normal reef temperatures which are higher temperatures than most people keep their homes in warm weather.
When it comes to reef tank setups, I'm not a big fan of ERVs for those two reasons but, then again, I live in an area with a high relative humidity and keep my thermostat temperature set below the temperature that I keep my tanks.
HRVs are great but have a limited season as they are for use in cool/cold weather.
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