Large volume laminar flow machine

4. LAMINAR

This is the opposite of turbulent/chaotic. So the glass-clear fountains of water are excellent examples of laminar. This happens when the water molecules don't rub against each other causing them to change directions. This water-water friction steals energy away from the current flow. It also creates local loops of current flow.

Chaotic flow can be stressful on living creatures. Compare a smooth stream flowing over and around you to a jacuzzi... Turbulence is good sometimes, but not all the time.

To get true laminar flow at the flow rates needed here, we need 1/8" straws that are 3" long stacked into a box. Each straw straightens the flow and 'removes the rough edges' so that the water molecules come out together without rubbing up against each other.

For this to work well, the straws need pressure behind them.

This is desirable but not the most critical feature. If the flow is uniform and directional and bulk at the output/input, some minor turbulence is probably ok.

The 1/4" channels that are 2" long try to help laminarize the flow but they're not really enough.

The rockwork and corals will naturally break up a laminar flow anyway, so being perfectly laminar is a waste. It just has to not be too turbulent.

5. HIGH FLOW

With a large cross sectional area 32" x 15", a very high flow is needed just to get enough motion. The 40K gph is really just at the peak but it needs to last a few seconds to do the job. The job is to remove debris, oxygenate the surface or rocks and corals, etc...

Bulk motion for a large area without high flow is pretty weak - won't even make a gorgonian sway a little.

6. ALTERNATING

So this one caused me to completely scrap a lot of great ideas just so I wouldn't give it up. The purpose of alternating flow is that nature never pushes in one direction indefinitely. It always pushes and pulls... Etc...

This is important in flow because it's basic functions- oxygenation, debris removal, etc... Is worthless in one direction (imho). That just biases one side vs. the other and exhausts living things.

While this is just my opinion (strongly held), the reversal of flow direction is a key need to simulate nature.
 
Yes. And I can even round the corners and smooth the outlets. I could also skinny the walls to 1/8" or maybe 1/16".

That would be amazingly better...

But this is a big piece. Even split into 5 subsection stacks 3" high, rack is 10" x 32" ... Big 3D part...

Who can print an ABS model that's 10" x 32" x 5" ?

If anyone can make it, that would be great and I would run all the CAD drawings for it.
If you could split the 32" in half to 16" you may find it easier to get it done.
 
7. PROGRAMMABLE

I honestly can't say I know how this will turn out. I do know that there is a lot that I don't know that I don't know... Rumsfeldian there...

So flexibility is important. I need to try things out so that the original idea's failure isn't a dead end. Programmability is a key flexibility.

Over the long term, there are usually many different modes of flow that the same physical structure can support. Programmability becomes a multiplier of potential.

8. COMPACT - I don't want to consume a huge space that could have coral in it...

9. EFFICIENT - would rather not kill the planet or have huge ongoing bills - including bigger chillers...

10. COST EFFECTIVE - I'm not made of money - yet. :D
 
If you could split the 32" in half to 16" you may find it easier to get it done.

I've thought of that. The 16" is frankly more adaptable to many projects.

I think the way this could work is with three pieces... Two 16" parts and one "mating" part that is needed to bring them together to make the larger piece.
 
This stuff is way over my head! And fascinating.

Karim, you are putting this into your existing tank, right?

I realize you are focused on this one very complex element, so I hate to bug you, but have you thought about the changes within the rest of your system necessitated by this project? Before you get too deep (ha!), you may want to step back a little to ponder what other changes to the total system will be needed, and if it will be doable.

Will you be hacking off either end of your rock work? Will you change its design to accommodate the new flow? Obviously, the fish come from an environment with similar flow, but will your fish be able to adapt to this new flow in the confines of a box? How will it affect the other plumbing?

I imagine you've probably thought of these big picture, overall system considerations, but I haven't seen it addressed in this thread. So I thought it might be helpful to bring it up before the cash starts flowing.
 
So - two projects.

I'm already looking at creating a retrofit on my current tank. It would be smaller and not as effective- but should still be impactful. I already have a model of that going.

The real purpose is my next tank. --- wife talks about moving more and more frequently as each year passes ---

You know my dual actuated bubble free Apex surge system I have in my current tank? That design started around 2007 as an idea. Became a conceptual design in 2011. Was first prototyped in 2012 and deployed in 2013.

So, I will do this at full scale - just depends on the timing. Once I have proof of concept, I'll put the retrofit version into my existing tank.

I won't rip everything out, but I have considered redoing the side walls. This one takes up a lot of room so the retro has to be vertical and the flow has to be up and down instead of back and forward.
 
http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=4922
I know this is considerably more basic than what you're attempting but setting up something similar with power heads at either end of the tank to allow you to switch the direction of the flow could allow you to test the basic principles for a fraction of the cost.

Nice. Looks like trying to do something similar on a smaller scale.

This does create current flow (a loop) that's relatively directional, but it's not bulk, uniform, laminar, alternating, etc...

This would show the effect of creating a current vs. a wave, but it's the other variables that I really need to test.
 
What would you want cut, and would any of it be solvent welded? Reason I ask is that laser cut edges can't be solvent welded. You have to run them by a router bit to make them perfectly straight and machined. Not a problem, just need to know what your intentions are.
 
What would you want cut, and would any of it be solvent welded? Reason I ask is that laser cut edges can't be solvent welded. You have to run them by a router bit to make them perfectly straight and machined. Not a problem, just need to know what your intentions are.


Eh, they can be. Thinner acrylic and cast acrylic, if you're not building a tank, would produce a good enough solvent weld surface.
 
Basically, I need to build one of these stacks

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/0_zpsfxhzxhya.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/0_zpsfxhzxhya.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 0_zpsfxhzxhya.jpg"/></a>

It's 3" tall on an 1/8" flat base
<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/0_zps8mhymn4w.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/0_zps8mhymn4w.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 0_zps8mhymn4w.jpg"/></a>

I was thinking of cutting the negative image into a 1/8" sheet so I can line up the vertical acrylic pieces.
 
Interesting idea. So you pretty much want to make a jig, so you can lay the pieces in there and glue them. Then put a piece on top and then glue the next. I see a few challenges with producing this from acrylic. Most of which, is that you won't be able to glue the center pieces very well because you won't be able to reach them. Maybe I'm not visualizing it very well.
 
I've been listening to the feedback here. Today I'm going to build the Lego mockup to test.

I think the 3D printing block is better than acrylic. I have a buddy who's got a small makerbot to learn on. It's tiny though.

There are services that'll print locally but I need to price out the components.
 
I was just thinking that this was perfect for 3d printing. You could print small sections of it and then glue it all together, to overcome the small printer problem.
 
They make bigger 3d printers. I've seen plastic printers that print up to 6' wide. You need to make sure you use the proper type for the projects. The smaller ones aren't SLA printers. They pretty much just melt a filament like a hot glue gun. They are allot less smooth, aren't as strong, and usually aren't water tight. SLA use UV light to cure a resin. They are water tight, usually very smooth and allot stronger.. Just some things to keep in mind. I have a 3d CAD/Reverse Engineering business and am a software dealer for 3D Systems. They make ALLOT of 3D printers also, so I always get their news letters and videos. I've even been to some demo shows. The printers are really neat. They even makes ones now that print in metal. Anything from stainless, to aluminum. Even tungsten carbide.
 
I was just thinking that this was perfect for 3d printing. You could print small sections of it and then glue it all together, to overcome the small printer problem.

That's exactly what I'm doing.

Back when this was a 15" tall baffle box, that didn't make sense. Since splitting the flow improved performance so much, there are now 5 section per side. So the manual work went up 5x and the dimension of each piece is 1/5... It now works as a modular construction. Then I took the pieces inside (since it's symmetric) and worked out a building block solution.

I'll post that in a bit.
 
They make bigger 3d printers. I've seen plastic printers that print up to 6' wide. You need to make sure you use the proper type for the projects. The smaller ones aren't SLA printers. They pretty much just melt a filament like a hot glue gun. They are allot less smooth, aren't as strong, and usually aren't water tight. SLA use UV light to cure a resin. They are water tight, usually very smooth and allot stronger.. Just some things to keep in mind. I have a 3d CAD/Reverse Engineering business and am a software dealer for 3D Systems. They make ALLOT of 3D printers also, so I always get their news letters and videos. I've even been to some demo shows. The printers are really neat. They even makes ones now that print in metal. Anything from stainless, to aluminum. Even tungsten carbide.

Excellent!! Maybe I can share my maker file and you can give me feedback on cost and performance.

The core part is now only 6" x 16" x 3" high. The smallest feature is 1/32" and it's based on a 1/8" base with 1/16" fins straight up.

Pics inbound...
 
<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/0_zpsenzl8wpt.png.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/0_zpsenzl8wpt.png" border="0" alt=" photo 0_zpsenzl8wpt.png"/></a>

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<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/0-5_zpsqfgh8nfl.png.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/0-5_zpsqfgh8nfl.png" border="0" alt=" photo 0-5_zpsqfgh8nfl.png"/></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/2-5_zpsbnjkwtix.png.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/2-5_zpsbnjkwtix.png" border="0" alt=" photo 2-5_zpsbnjkwtix.png"/></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/2_zpsecrtmzr3.png.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/2_zpsecrtmzr3.png" border="0" alt=" photo 2_zpsecrtmzr3.png"/></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/3_zpsfe3x3x70.png.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/3_zpsfe3x3x70.png" border="0" alt=" photo 3_zpsfe3x3x70.png"/></a>
 
On the question of sealing the side tank tops... I went with the lip edge (inside and out) with a rubber seal. There are three sections (side, side, back).

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/4_zpsv5fqc8rr.png.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/4_zpsv5fqc8rr.png" border="0" alt=" photo 4_zpsv5fqc8rr.png"/></a>

Here is the back section

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/7_zpshtp6btmv.png.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/7_zpshtp6btmv.png" border="0" alt=" photo 7_zpshtp6btmv.png"/></a>

Here the underside view of one end of the back section

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/5_zpsn7le6ppx.png.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/5_zpsn7le6ppx.png" border="0" alt=" photo 5_zpsn7le6ppx.png"/></a>

Here's the view of the left section from the front

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/6_zpsptn1foda.png.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/6_zpsptn1foda.png" border="0" alt=" photo 6_zpsptn1foda.png"/></a>

Here's the total view

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/8_zpsaf0mgtp1.png.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/8_zpsaf0mgtp1.png" border="0" alt=" photo 8_zpsaf0mgtp1.png"/></a>
 
So... juggernaut - any views on 3D printing this section?

3_zpsfe3x3x70.png
 
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