Larvatus off DD - anybody here get it?
- Thread starter caribfan
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sonnus
Member
I just cane across this thread and thought I would share my experience with this butterfly. I didn't have the patience to read through all of the posts so I apologize if I am repeating something already stated.
I added a lavartus butterfly to my tank a few years ago and the fish THRIVED for well over a half year. My tank is a 650 gallon acropora dominated tank. This little guy was very small, only about 1.5-2.0". I knew he would eat acros but I thought this little guy simply couldn't do enough damage to do much coral. I WAS WRONG!
Even though he was small and many of my acros were nearly 10" across I started noticing major problems about 3 months after adding the butterfly. The lavartus was especially find of millepora polyps and reading the smooth tissue at the base of the acro. The damage to the corals was very similar to AEFW. The only reason the fish stayed in my tank for another 6 months was because of the difficulty catching the tiny fish in such a large tank.
Over the time I only observed the lavartus eating acropora. It would look at and even peck at other corals but no obvious bite marks were ever seen. The fish would also eat frozen foods that were fed to the tank but no matter how much was fed the fish CONSTANTLY ate acropora.
After removing the fish from the tank I kept the fish in a much smaller fish only tank. The fish ate frozen food lightly but never more than a few bites at a time. The fish did eat live brine and live black worms well but this only sustained the fish for about a 6 weeks without live coral.
I am confident that this fish would have lived a long, healthy life in my 650 gallon. Most of the acros were unaffected by the fish's grazing but there were a few corals that were decimated. Again this was a very small fish in a very large tank. I've seen lavartus butterflys much larger than mine was and I can't imagine how much damage they would do.
I added a lavartus butterfly to my tank a few years ago and the fish THRIVED for well over a half year. My tank is a 650 gallon acropora dominated tank. This little guy was very small, only about 1.5-2.0". I knew he would eat acros but I thought this little guy simply couldn't do enough damage to do much coral. I WAS WRONG!
Even though he was small and many of my acros were nearly 10" across I started noticing major problems about 3 months after adding the butterfly. The lavartus was especially find of millepora polyps and reading the smooth tissue at the base of the acro. The damage to the corals was very similar to AEFW. The only reason the fish stayed in my tank for another 6 months was because of the difficulty catching the tiny fish in such a large tank.
Over the time I only observed the lavartus eating acropora. It would look at and even peck at other corals but no obvious bite marks were ever seen. The fish would also eat frozen foods that were fed to the tank but no matter how much was fed the fish CONSTANTLY ate acropora.
After removing the fish from the tank I kept the fish in a much smaller fish only tank. The fish ate frozen food lightly but never more than a few bites at a time. The fish did eat live brine and live black worms well but this only sustained the fish for about a 6 weeks without live coral.
I am confident that this fish would have lived a long, healthy life in my 650 gallon. Most of the acros were unaffected by the fish's grazing but there were a few corals that were decimated. Again this was a very small fish in a very large tank. I've seen lavartus butterflys much larger than mine was and I can't imagine how much damage they would do.
Interesting point, I've never run a UV sterilizer and don't truthfully know how much affect they have on things like bacterial infections, it's definitely something to consider though.
When I lost the Mitratus, I blamed it on an internal parasite, but never confirmed that, it was simply a suspicion.
I suppose if I've learned anything from this it's that I should have been a bit more aggressive with my prazipro treatment. Of course, this could have had some negative effects as well.
Thanks so much for the information!
In your opinion, would you say it is a quantity of food issue or the actual type of food that caused the demise of your Larvatus?
I know what you mean, that was definitely the case with my Mitratus. And maybe that is what happened, it just really sucks that in this case it was with a fish that typically never eats well in captivity.
I actually think mine had started to fill out a bit the week prior to its death, it was picking little neck clams completely clean.
Interesting theory on the shellfish, time will tell as I bought a large bag of them.
Do you not consider coral polyps protein? I'm pretty sure it's the tissue/flesh/mucous of a living animal. Think that qualifies as protein, but someone else may be able to explain it otherwise.
Dmorty217
Saltwater Addict
I think that this post pretty much sums up what they must have to survive. Something in the coral skin must be critical to the long term health and longevity of the fish
Again, I don't really agree, based on the few long term captives (none would exist if this was the case). IMHO it's simply quantity of food (other issues, like pathogens, not withstanding). They just don't eat enough, unless fed almost constantly.
I would agree in regards to needing to eat constantly, my fish pretty much constantly ate/picked at those clams. That's why my failure here is so confounding. If the thing was eating, to the tune of a completely cleaned out little neck clam daily, why the sudden death? Like Peter said, the one he lost was much skinnier than mine.
I think I am squarely in the camp of the cause of death being related to an unknown pathogen / parasite. The manner in which it died is to similar to how my Mitratus died and those fish are obviously not corallivores.
Disagree if you like, but at this point, that's where I am. Having said that, I'm not certain I'll try another one.
I think I am squarely in the camp of the cause of death being related to an unknown pathogen / parasite. The manner in which it died is to similar to how my Mitratus died and those fish are obviously not corallivores.
Disagree if you like, but at this point, that's where I am. Having said that, I'm not certain I'll try another one.
SteelMastiff
New member
Matt, very sorry to read this tonight, it's never an easy ordeal...
sonnus
Member
I think it was a quantity issue. I think if you could get this fish to eat prepared foods you would have to feed it constantly, all day long! It was an extremely active fish and I would assume it had a high metabolism. I also am not sure its digestive system can handle large amounts of food at a time since it never ate much per feeding.
Anyone seen these available lately, locally or online?
I haven't seen LA list one since the one I had, and I'm curious to know if it's a supply issue or just that LA isn't going to list these anymore.
Kevin/DFS, I'd love to hear from you on this, it's a fish I'd like to try again .
I haven't seen LA list one since the one I had, and I'm curious to know if it's a supply issue or just that LA isn't going to list these anymore.
Kevin/DFS, I'd love to hear from you on this, it's a fish I'd like to try again .
Ambition
New member
I haven't seen much for fish from the Red Sea recently, though I haven't been paying much attention to it lately.
Dmorty217
Saltwater Addict
+1 plus the Saudis are engaged in the fighting too which leaves Egypt and Eritrea... Which I personally didn't even know was a country so wouldn't hold your breath for them exporting anything. Really a shame since a ton of awesome fish come from there
ThRoewer
New member
Maybe a bit late but I still would like to add some thoughts as they may help the next one.
Specialization has it's reasons, mostly to exploit a food source no one else is interested in, usually because it isn't the greatest to begin with, too hard to come by or too tedious to get a meal together. So I don't think Acropora polyps contain any special enzyme the fish need for their survival but are just something that provided an available niche.
I've done some investigation on Pygoplites (Regal angel, also thought to be a tricky eater) when I kept them and found that it's not the sponges they need in their diet but rather the algae the sponges contain. Any diet that contains the right mix of algae and meat will do fine.
I kept my regals in a rather algae infested tank and they were nipping on algae all day. I never lost one to not eating.
The same deal you have with coral tissue - it's loaded up with Zooxanthellae (=algae). Feeding a fish who's diet is high on algae a predominantly protein diet (clam) may cause long term problems.
Also corals are abundant enough in the reefs so the fish doesn't need to stuff itself with one large meal but rather picks a few polyps on one coral and then a few more on the next coral. In the wild this doesn't seriously damage the corals (a few polyps will recover within days) and therefore preserves the food resource.
With this feeding habit and ample food supply at all times the fish has no need for a large stomach.
So I would imagine to keep these guys you need to give them a food that contains the right amount of algae and allow them to pick tiny bites all day long.
In short it is a fish for someone with lots of time.
One trick I would try is to make a feeder in the shape of a fake coral. In the early days of keeping reef fish the advice was to make a food paste, smear it on a dead coral branch and bake it in. Today I would skip the baking and rather use a binder but the idea is in my opinion still worth of pursuit.
Also I found that single fish are way harder to get to eat than when you have a pair or a group. My first regal was a pain to get to eat but when I later added another he just copied what the first did and was eating in no time. I had the same experience with copperbands and other tricky eaters.
The pair or group dynamics simply can't be underestimated.
Specialization has it's reasons, mostly to exploit a food source no one else is interested in, usually because it isn't the greatest to begin with, too hard to come by or too tedious to get a meal together. So I don't think Acropora polyps contain any special enzyme the fish need for their survival but are just something that provided an available niche.
I've done some investigation on Pygoplites (Regal angel, also thought to be a tricky eater) when I kept them and found that it's not the sponges they need in their diet but rather the algae the sponges contain. Any diet that contains the right mix of algae and meat will do fine.
I kept my regals in a rather algae infested tank and they were nipping on algae all day. I never lost one to not eating.
The same deal you have with coral tissue - it's loaded up with Zooxanthellae (=algae). Feeding a fish who's diet is high on algae a predominantly protein diet (clam) may cause long term problems.
Also corals are abundant enough in the reefs so the fish doesn't need to stuff itself with one large meal but rather picks a few polyps on one coral and then a few more on the next coral. In the wild this doesn't seriously damage the corals (a few polyps will recover within days) and therefore preserves the food resource.
With this feeding habit and ample food supply at all times the fish has no need for a large stomach.
So I would imagine to keep these guys you need to give them a food that contains the right amount of algae and allow them to pick tiny bites all day long.
In short it is a fish for someone with lots of time.
One trick I would try is to make a feeder in the shape of a fake coral. In the early days of keeping reef fish the advice was to make a food paste, smear it on a dead coral branch and bake it in. Today I would skip the baking and rather use a binder but the idea is in my opinion still worth of pursuit.
Also I found that single fish are way harder to get to eat than when you have a pair or a group. My first regal was a pain to get to eat but when I later added another he just copied what the first did and was eating in no time. I had the same experience with copperbands and other tricky eaters.
The pair or group dynamics simply can't be underestimated.
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