Leds for the long run?
- Thread starter sabbath
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I should have worded that a little different. What I hearing is that the corals are slowly dieing.
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lighthouze08
Member
you'll hear threads that go on and on about the result, my opinion is that if you want true and tested light go w/ halide or t5, if you're gamed and want to learn and mess w/ stuff go for leds. I have diy leds for 6 months now and nothing is dead yet, corals seem healthy to me
NatureNerd
New member
Almost a year with my AI lights and everything is flourishing.
been running my LED for 8 months now, ive grown a couple small colonies from frags under the light and they look fantastic. colonies i had under my old MH and T5 setup dont look as good as the ones grown under LED. I have lost red and pink though they turn orange/brownish. blues, greens and purples are really nice.
I did start losing coral health and the tank looked crap a few weeks back which i thought was the LED, but narrowed it down to too much K and B-balance (i was starting to dose this for supplementation and went in too fast too much), ive backed right off this and my corals are coming back good. There are factors other than LED that can affect the tank.
advice is go look at some LED tanks if you like the look get them, if not then wait it out a bit.
I did start losing coral health and the tank looked crap a few weeks back which i thought was the LED, but narrowed it down to too much K and B-balance (i was starting to dose this for supplementation and went in too fast too much), ive backed right off this and my corals are coming back good. There are factors other than LED that can affect the tank.
advice is go look at some LED tanks if you like the look get them, if not then wait it out a bit.
tozzi
New member
Most people that bad mouth led r metal halide lovers like myself 
Never did i think those little baby bulbs could grow sps as good as my big boy MH bulbs. Well i had to switch cause my electric bill was just out of hand anymore and to my suprise my leds grew all of my coral just as good. Almost 2 yrs and everything is still good. Some colors do look different on some corals under mh then led. Some worse but some better. Im a believer now
Never did i think those little baby bulbs could grow sps as good as my big boy MH bulbs. Well i had to switch cause my electric bill was just out of hand anymore and to my suprise my leds grew all of my coral just as good. Almost 2 yrs and everything is still good. Some colors do look different on some corals under mh then led. Some worse but some better. Im a believer nowMost people that bad mouth led r metal halide lovers like myself
Many are saying that some corals colors are different with leds. You stated that you have experience with both... do you or others have thoughts as to why? Maybe your missing certain colors from the bulbs that the corals need. Maybe we need to run some green, reds and or violets...? Or will we need to supplement T5?
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NatureNerd
New member
I was a MH guy for a decade or more. Now I use LED's for the reasons of ease of use, flexibility, safety, heat load, and energy efficiency. 10-11 months since the switch. At least in my case, there is not a question of coral health. I believe the LED's provide everything the coral needs. I agree some coral colors are different, but, I don't think any wavelengths of light or lines are missing that are needed. My corals look really healthy. Yes, a yellowish coral is now more green(see below), a ponape bird nest is now lighter pink with purple tips, and a digitata is more peach colored than orange. But they all look healthy and are growing well.
In my quick research, there is a 417nm line and a 425nm line that could be useful for photosynthesis. These are the only two lines that might be useful that aren't well covered by any of the big brand LED lights. One could add single wavelength LED's like green or red's to change the appearance of things but, I do not think they would have any affect on coral health, IMHO.
tozzi
New member
I don't know. But like I said some aren't as colorful but some r better. I'm sure different color LEDs would help. Like red green etc
wright4941
New member
@Tozzi what kind of LEDs are you using? How about the rest of you ?
Alex T.
Active member
I'm one of those people currently on the fence with my lighting. I'm in the midst of a new build and am extremely confused. I've always been a halide guy...400 watt Radiums on Galaxy ballast with VHO actinic. I want to believe in LED's but this is how I'm looking at it:
1. Three 400 watt halides on for 6 hours per day:
2. 160 watt VHO Super Actinic for 4 hours per day:
1,200 watts x 6 hrs= 7,200 watts= 7.2 kw = $1.08 per day (.15 per kw)
320 watts x 4 hours = 1,280 watts = 1.3 kw = .30 per day (.15 per kw)
$1.08 x 30 days = $32.40
$.30 x 30 days = $9.00
This is $41.40 per month x 12 months = $496.80 in electirc costs per year
Bulbs replaced once per year ($250 for 3 Radiums) ($45 for 2 Actinic VHO)
Yearly cost to run my current lighting regimen: $791.80
Cost to switch to LED:
To match lighting output of my current setup I would need a minimum of 6 AI Sol units over my new 195 six foot tank:
Cost of Sol set up of 6 modules, hanging kit and controller $2,543
6 hours at 100% 73 watts = 438 watts per unit x 6 units = 2,628 watts = 2.63 kw at .15 per kw = .39 per day
4 hours at @30% of 73 watts = 88 watts per unit x 6 units = 528 watts = .53 kw = .08 per day
.39 per day x 30 days = $11.70
.08 per day x 30 days = $2.40
This is $14.10 per month x 12 months = $169.20 per year assuming no malfunctions in LED components.
Assuming the advertised 50,000 hour lifespan of the LED lighting I would get the following:
50,0000 hours divided by 10 hours per day = 5,000 days = 13.7 years
If all things are left constant with no replacement to halide and VHO ballasts or LED components, the following is my cost breakdown and break-even point
Year 1
Halide/VHO: $791.80
LED: $2,543 + $169.20 = $2,712.20
Year 2 (Running totals)
Halide/VHO: $1,583.60
LED: $2,881.40
Year 3
Halide/VHO: $2,375.40
LED: $3,050.60
Year 4:
Halide/VHO: $3,167.20
LED: $3,219.80
Basically, a few months into year 5 I would break even on the LED switch if I were to switch from my current setup. I realize that there are many unforeseen variables that may apply. Some may scream that I didn't include a chiller. I've never needed one because of efficient reflectors hung 16 inches off of the water's surface. Also, the LED system I mentioned is closer in PAR comparison to a 250 watt halide system which would have broken even in year 7 instead of 5. If I were to go with a high end t5 fixture the break even is somewhere in the middle of year 8.
I did this to show that even though LED is the future of the hobby, there is currently no need for me personally to switch from a proven SPS growth and color lighting machine. Many people who read this will not even keep a car this long, let alone a reef tank. Some will leave the hobby, some will shift focus of their tanks and some will simply move on to other new technology as it develops in the next few years. If I could justify a 2 to three year break even then I would do it, but saying that I would go LED for the long haul starting right now the numbers don't make sense.
I'm open to suggestions if someone can show me an economical reason to switch, but I just don't see it making sense for those of us that have a currently successful lighting system unless we just want to be early adopters of new technology.
1. Three 400 watt halides on for 6 hours per day:
2. 160 watt VHO Super Actinic for 4 hours per day:
1,200 watts x 6 hrs= 7,200 watts= 7.2 kw = $1.08 per day (.15 per kw)
320 watts x 4 hours = 1,280 watts = 1.3 kw = .30 per day (.15 per kw)
$1.08 x 30 days = $32.40
$.30 x 30 days = $9.00
This is $41.40 per month x 12 months = $496.80 in electirc costs per year
Bulbs replaced once per year ($250 for 3 Radiums) ($45 for 2 Actinic VHO)
Yearly cost to run my current lighting regimen: $791.80
Cost to switch to LED:
To match lighting output of my current setup I would need a minimum of 6 AI Sol units over my new 195 six foot tank:
Cost of Sol set up of 6 modules, hanging kit and controller $2,543
6 hours at 100% 73 watts = 438 watts per unit x 6 units = 2,628 watts = 2.63 kw at .15 per kw = .39 per day
4 hours at @30% of 73 watts = 88 watts per unit x 6 units = 528 watts = .53 kw = .08 per day
.39 per day x 30 days = $11.70
.08 per day x 30 days = $2.40
This is $14.10 per month x 12 months = $169.20 per year assuming no malfunctions in LED components.
Assuming the advertised 50,000 hour lifespan of the LED lighting I would get the following:
50,0000 hours divided by 10 hours per day = 5,000 days = 13.7 years
If all things are left constant with no replacement to halide and VHO ballasts or LED components, the following is my cost breakdown and break-even point
Year 1
Halide/VHO: $791.80
LED: $2,543 + $169.20 = $2,712.20
Year 2 (Running totals)
Halide/VHO: $1,583.60
LED: $2,881.40
Year 3
Halide/VHO: $2,375.40
LED: $3,050.60
Year 4:
Halide/VHO: $3,167.20
LED: $3,219.80
Basically, a few months into year 5 I would break even on the LED switch if I were to switch from my current setup. I realize that there are many unforeseen variables that may apply. Some may scream that I didn't include a chiller. I've never needed one because of efficient reflectors hung 16 inches off of the water's surface. Also, the LED system I mentioned is closer in PAR comparison to a 250 watt halide system which would have broken even in year 7 instead of 5. If I were to go with a high end t5 fixture the break even is somewhere in the middle of year 8.
I did this to show that even though LED is the future of the hobby, there is currently no need for me personally to switch from a proven SPS growth and color lighting machine. Many people who read this will not even keep a car this long, let alone a reef tank. Some will leave the hobby, some will shift focus of their tanks and some will simply move on to other new technology as it develops in the next few years. If I could justify a 2 to three year break even then I would do it, but saying that I would go LED for the long haul starting right now the numbers don't make sense.
I'm open to suggestions if someone can show me an economical reason to switch, but I just don't see it making sense for those of us that have a currently successful lighting system unless we just want to be early adopters of new technology.
NatureNerd
New member
For me the payback period is 3.5 years but that was just one of the reasons I switched. I did a big spreadsheet that only proved that I am a nerd, not that LED's are the answer due to financial reasons. I don't think the electric bill and bulb costs alone would have convinced me. Let's face it this hobby is not inexpensive. I still believe that MH is the best light for SPS's but LED seems really close and the other factors are more than worth what ever differences there are, for me. I got rid of my old MH system after the first six months of using LED's.
Alex T.
Active member
I agree it's not a cheap hobby. I've upgraded a lot of things lately,but felt very confident with the other purchases. This one just keeps nagging at me. I may just go with an 8 bulb Powermodule. Save on electric, get great, adjustable colors in SPS and fish, but totally lose the shimmer I've grown to love.
This sucks. I wish someone close by had a full blown SPS tank with LED lighting that could help nudge me into taking the plunge. That's how I got hooked on Radium bulbs with VHO actinic. Seeing is believing. Pictures are great, but seeing it in person is the ticket.
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