let the insanity begin

Thanks again Nick.
Aside from the pre-Christmas shopping, I actually have a little more time right now. Our D.O.N. at work hired some agency nurses to work the holidays, and since holidays were weekends this year, I have not had to work the double shifts I usually do. My kids activities are taking a break for the holidays too. :)
I had a goal set back in June when this project started to have the first four tanks running by New Year. Looks like I didn't make it but that's OK. I wouldn't have traded any of the time I've spent doing things for other people for anything. In my own thoughts, this greenhouse is still coming along well considering there is only a crew of one working on it by hand and the difficulties involved in some of the steps.
 
Cool Rick!
Good you labeled those breakers too. As I mentioned, not sure of any code issues, but they make for a handy, clean terminal:)
 
The stand for the first two tanks. 4" x 4" legs notched to support the entire platform. Platform built from 2" x 6" material. The stands are built 7'7" x 4'7" to accommodate the 2" x 4" frame that will support the sides of the tank. 7" extra length and width for each stand may not sound like allot, but it is space not accounted for on my graph drawings and original plans. It looks like I may have to leave out one tank on the east side unless I narrow the space between stands from 17" to 11". It is already going to be crowded and tight in there so the one tank will probably just be left out.
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A couple of items I have been waiting for are the tds monitors. John Guest fittings aren't made to accept 3/8" ID x 9/16" OD tubing so special tubing adapters had to be ordered for them. The deionizers are now charged and passing water with a final product measurement of 1 ppm of tds. My RO unit in the house doesn't do that good with final product around 40 ppm.
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Now this vat can be filed, buffered and salted for the first load of live rock but needs to be cleaned and sanitized first. Live rock is on order to be delivered 1-19-05. Not much to do around here until then, except build another nine stands and lots of skimmers. What will I do with all of that time?
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Really thinking of going all DI rather than the RO/DI route. My Spectrapures due for all cartridges and membrane. Its cheaper to buy a new unit!.
What do those units cost? Including resin?
What kind of skimmers are you going with? I'm assuming air powered?
 
The main reason to run RO before a DI is to make the resins last longer. If separate resin beds are used, they can be recharged.
The DI I have is Aquatechnics series 10. It was about $700. They also make a series 1, 2, and 5 which will process ~1,000 gallons per number in the series. I only found 3 US suppliers and one of them never answered my emails.
Yes, going with counter current air driven skimmers.
 
I would advise some sort of "footer" under the 4x4 legs. Maybe a solid 4" thick concrete block.


Fantastic project.
 
yup, thought of that. back about one or two picks you can see a pile of concrete pavers stacked up under my furnace. I appreciate the input.
 
See, this thread makes me want to have somebody else build me a Green House!! But I'm lazy like that.

Nick
 
pepe.king.prawn-thanks for the kind words. If that is what you really want to do, I would encourage you to go for it.

maxxII- I can be had for hire, I'm easy but I ain't cheap! ;)

Well, been having major water quality issues with running the straight DI system. The first fifty gallons of water I ran as a test came out fine. The next day, I filled up the 425 gallon vat for live rock cycling and the tds readings crept up slowly from 1 to 6 and then to around 19. TDS is only a test of conductivity, but the fact that they are rising so quickly concerns me. There is a pump in the vat to keep the water circulating but I postponed my live rock shipment until next week because I'm not happy with the readings from the DI and I don't want to start out with a poor foundation.. I'm sure it's because our town's water is so crappy to begin with. TDS readings of tap water are 680 to 760 and I think it's exhausting the ion exchange capacity of the DI very quickly.
Looks like there will have to be some RO membranes placed before the DI to extend it's life. Either that or recharge the DI every couple hundred gallons. :(
 
Might be better off to haul your own water. I know philo sells it next to the water tower. My TDS run 150 to 190 on the input. Might find a local town with better water. Know it a pain, just a thought.
 
OK I'm 1000 miles away but have been following this since the first post because I think it is simply awesome!! Congrats on all the hard work and many successes to come.

On the DI issue. I would strongly reccommend you go with an RO first for water that high in intial TDS. It will indeed need recharging very rapidly and once you add it up I think in the long run if you go with an RO first you'll end up cheaper. Besides what's another grand right!!
 
Rick, you mentioned recharging DI ? I didnt know you could do that. could you elaborate a little?

I'm seeing the same thing with my water (just outside mansfield) have run about 4-500 gallons threw the systems and I think the DI is already in need of replacing / recharging.

Ken
 
Rick, Is it a new tub? If so then it could be tub itself leaching TDS. If that's so then it should calm down after a while.

600-700 tds to start with.....ouch!

Dan
 
Hauling 1,000+ gallons per week, every week is simply not an option I'm willing to even consider right now. Even paying to have it delivered would be too great of a hassle. There are just too many options available for purifying the water on site. There is a solution, just need to figure the way to make the most water the fastest and have good quality. Hey, I don't want much. ;) If I can run almost 500 gallons and have the tds rise by 19, then if I reduce the tds going into the DI by 50%, that should double my DI's ability. An RO should reduce by more like 90%. I just need to have about four 100 gpd membranes in front of it.
kwl1763- Thanks for the kind words and suggestions. Glad to have you along. The more information floating around, the better off we all will be. I have already been discussing RO options with two suppliers and that is my next step in this battle. I knew my tap water was terrible from having it tested when I installed the RO in my house but was convinced that a DI of that size would give me about a month's worth of good performance- not less than 500 gallons. I have some pretty special relationships with most of the companies I buy supplies from so it won't be another grand, but it won't be cheap either. I'm thinking that four 100 gpd membranes would be adequate since they only get about 50-60% of what they are advertised for, unless you have heated and pressurized water for optimum performance. The sediment and carbon filters are already in place so I just need the membranes and housings. Premium Aquatics even has a two stage RO for sale (Stingray) with a carbon block and membrane rated at 100 gpd for about $99 retail.
kennethl- If a DI is separate beds, they can be recharged. If it is a mixed bed, they can't be recharged. (ok, I guess you could sit there for a week straight and separate all the + beads and - beads and then recharge them). With DI resins/ beads, the + bed of resin will absorb positive charged ions in the water (ie Fe++, Ca++, Na+, etc) and trade them for H+. The - bed of resin will absorb the negative charged ions from the water (ie Cl-, HCO3-, etc) and trade them for OH-. Then the H+ and the OH- quickly combine to form pure water. Eventually, the resins run out of H+ and OH- and the resins must be recharged. The + bed gets trickled through with muriatic acid and absorbs the H+ from the acid while releasing all of the other ions it has absorbed from filtering the water. The - bed gets trickled through with caustic soda (sodium hydroxide) and absorbs OH- while releasing all of the ions it has absorbed while filtering the water. Both beds must then be forcefully flushed. If you have a mixed bed of resins, there is no way to recharge both resins at the same time because you can't have a solution that is both acidic and basic. For most people running a RO/DI unit in the home. if it is a four stage, (has sediment filter, carbon filter, RO membrane, DI cannister) it can't be recharged. If it is a five stage (sediment, carbon, RO and two DI cartridges) it can be recharged. As long as you know which cannister is which and don't have two DI cannisters that are both mixed beds. With mixed beds, you just have to buy a new one.
DKKA- the live rock vat is a new tub but I am measuring the water coming out of the DI, not in the tub. My water is terrible, but this will be beat and the show will go on. :)
 
ahh, very good information, thanks for taking the time to write all of that. I might look into adding another DI chamber and run seperate beds.
 
rick rottet said:
If it is a mixed bed, they can't be recharged. (ok, I guess you could sit there for a week straight and separate all the + beads and - beads and then recharge them). With DI resins/ beads, the + bed of resin will absorb positive charged ions in the water (ie Fe++, Ca++, Na+, etc) and trade them for H+. The - bed of resin will absorb the negative charged ions from the water (ie Cl-, HCO3-, etc) and trade them for OH-. Then the H+ and the OH- quickly combine to form pure water. Eventually, the resins run out of H+ and OH- and the resins must be recharged. The + bed gets trickled through with muriatic acid and absorbs the H+ from the acid while releasing all of the other ions it has absorbed from filtering the water. The - bed gets trickled through with caustic soda (sodium hydroxide) and absorbs OH- while releasing all of the ions it has absorbed while filtering the water. Both beds must then be forcefully flushed.

And thus endeth our science lesson for the day...... :D
 
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