let the insanity begin

It's been a rough week up here with an unexpected funeral (one of my wife's cousins), running kids to their activities, finished the living room, Christmas shopping, and running for more building supplies. Finally got to "sneak" in a few hours on the greenhouse Sunday afternoon, most of which was spent backfilling the low and exposed spots. I really was expecting to have to wait until spring but figured to get it while the weather is holding out.

A little gift received from my employer for five years of service makes a nice addition to the greenhouse. Made by Bulova, it has a clock, barometer and a temperature/ humidity gauge. I was provided a catalogue to choose from several different items and chose this because there are some studies and personal commentaries which correlate protein skimmer output to barometric pressure, temperature and humidity need to be monitored, and I also need to be able to tell what time it is- or at least my family says I do.
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Finally have the lights hung in place. White lamps are being used for the time being so I can work after sundown- comes too early in winter and I have been using some halogen spotlights. When the facility construction is completed and stocking begins, these will be replaced with actinic lamps to highlight the fluorescent qualities of many corals and just because I like actinics.
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Industrial air blower in place. Originally, the plan was to set it in the center of the back wall but I noticed that if it was to the right so it sits under and behind the furnace, that would free up a little space. The blower is German-made by Siemens. I looked at four manufacturer's spec sheets and this company had the tightest production clearances and were able to fit the size to my application with one phone call. One of the other manufacturers wouldn't even try to fit a blower to what I wanted. One kept calling/ emailing me to request all kinds of information like detailed drawings of my facility, what size pipe was going to be used, how long was the pipe to be, how many bubbles per second did I want, and asked me to explain the concept behind an air lift. If anyone out there has to order a blower and the representative can't tell you what you need by simply telling them "I want X number of outlets at X feet deep of water", move on to a different supplier. They should be able to tell you what size pipe to run to mach the blower output, a maximum length of pipe that can be used and shouldn't need any drawings of your building. A third company actually tried to sell me three blowers, one of which weighed 426 pounds, used enough electricity to power a small town and cost nearly ten grand. I just couldn't hold my tongue and asked the guy if he was smoking crack.
2" PVC pipe comes out the back of the blower and takes a 90 degree turn up to a double Y with 45 degree street fitting in both of the side branches. The pipe then runs out each branch of the double Y to the sides of the greenhouse, takes a 90 degree turn upwards then another 90 to turn and run all the way down both sides. Long sweep fittings were used for all turns because gentle curves make less resistance than sharper turns. The pipe can be tapped for air line outlets wherever needed for the air lifts and skimmers. Another length of 2" pipe goes straight out the top of the double Y and is fitted with a gate valve to be used for pressure relief. The blower gets started with the gate valve wide open and then the valve is closed little by little until air comes out of the deepest line. This reduces the amount of back pressure and stress on the blower. The slop sink is plumbed in place on the left side with a single supply faucet (no "hot" water here) and a sprayer.
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Rick, Looks sharp.
Just to clarify, the air blower is to move water in your tanks? That is the impression I was getting.
I'm glad someone was able to provide one to your specs. I know aqu-ecosystems carries the sweetwater brand. I'm guessing they didnt meet your needs?
Nick
 
jeyes1- Thank You

maxxII- yes, the blower is to move water in the tanks and also to provide air to the skimmers. I am going to use airlifts (vertical lengths of PVC pipe with a 90 degree elbow at the top)- just like an undergravel filter but the bottoms of the tubes (pipes) wont be connected to an undergravel plate, they will just be open towards the surface of the substrate. I am planning on supplementing with pumps on some of the tanks with the stonies which require higher flow.

For the record, Sweetwater was one of the companies I checked out. They were the ones who kept writing me back and wanted the drawings, pipe sizes, etc. They do make good blowers and I don't have an issue with the company itself, just some of their reps and engineers must not be familiar with the application. Gast was the company who tried to sell me three blowers including the $10,000 monster. Again, Gast makes a good blower and has been a reliable staple in fishrooms around the world for decades, some of their engineers (apparently) are not familiar with aquaculture applications. Of course, now that I know what size I need for this project, I could buy one anywhere- but still would buy the Siemens because of their tighter manufacturing specs. :)
 
Hi Rick,
From experience, you may want to plumb the first 10' of your blower line in sch 80. The compression of the air creates heat, and can melt sch40. Also, you could make this outlet go to a different loop, depending on the season. If its hot in there, open up the valve that sends it outside for a bit. If its cold inside, use the loop inside the greenhouse.
The lines do put out some heat. It may be negligable to your application, but for me a (cooling or heating) watt saved is better spent on the neccesities.
Chris
 
Siemens tighter manufacturing specs

Siemens tighter manufacturing specs

Did they point you to a place on one of their web sites? I mean to say, are the specs out on the web or must you contact Siemens directly? (I suspect that one must contact them directly, and that most companies woud be reluctant to give out their manufacturing specs.)

If the specs are on one of Siemens web sites, would you post the link?

Gast has the following on their website where they compare against Siemens.

"Siemens is rated at higher pressures than the corresponding Gast Blower but the Gast blower has comparable performance at lower duties."
http://www.gastmfg.com/siemensblower.html

So I guess even Gast claims the Siemens blowers are better. (Perform better)
 
H2OENG- good idea with an outside loop to adjust for temps. Even better if it would have a thermostatic proportional valve on it so I wouldn't have to be there to switch it/ adjust it.

4Texans-maybe I'm not using the word specs correctly. What I mean is how well (tightly) and consistently the parts fit together, and output in cfm/ pressure compared to power consumption for the price when compared to a similar sized and priced competitor. You have to dig into their .pdf files to check it out then find a US distributor to discuss applications.

Home page for Siemens is here
http://www.nash-elmo.com/index.cfm

A few of their models
http://www.nash-elmo.com/english/pdf/ne_PB_G_400_E_Rz.pdf
http://www.nash-elmo.com/english/pdf/ne_PB_G_200_E_Rz.pdf

Quality standards associations
http://www.nash-elmo.com/english/ab...MainMenu=NavAbout&TierMenu=TierCertifications

Downloadable brochures
http://www.nash-elmo.com/english/sa...cfm?MainMenu=NavSales&TierMenu=TierLiterature

American distributor
http://www.jehmco.com/PRODUCTS_/HARDWARE_/Regenerative_Blowers/regenerative_blowers.html

HTH
P.S. you will need Adobe Acrobat Reader to check out the .pdf files and brochures
 
Very nice setup you have there.

To answer your question about why greenhouse doors have locks on them. When you spray pesticides you are required by OSHA to have the doors locked so that childern and otherwise dumb people dont get in there and inhale the pesticides and subsequently die. ;)

As for cooling have you checked into the ummm (i forget what they are called) they look like large cardboard honeycombs that have water run through them and then there is a fan which bows past and can cool the air up to 20 degrees i think. Kinda like a swamp cooler....

Anyway, if you have any greenhouse related questions feel free to ask me, my family has been in the greenhouse business for over 45 years and have over 5 acres of greenhouses.
 
Thanks for the offer.
I wonder why OSHA doesn't require farmers or golf course maintenance crews to "lock up" their fields when they spray pesticides. ;)
The material I have on hand to use as an evap cooler is like those green scrubber pads used in kitchens (except mine are 4' x 4'). They will sit in front of the shutters. When the exhaust fan is running, that will pull air across the wet pads.
I have heard of what you're talking about but haven't seen them, got any pics?
I have also seen some big metal "radiators" used for evap cooling but those are fairly expensive. IIRC, a unit like that for my size greenhouse was around $1,500. I think the same principle can be achieved much cheaper.
 
rick rottet said:
Thanks for the offer.
I wonder why OSHA doesn't require farmers or golf course maintenance crews to "lock up" their fields when they spray pesticides. ;)

its the concentration of the chemicals in and ENCLOSED area that does it.

the government DOES offer incentives for farmers to not farm land that has runoff into major tributaries.
 
here is a pic

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The picture above shows the swamp cooler (also known as evaporative coolers) made by Carolina Cooler. (It's the long brownish piece of equipment located behind the Reznor heater.) The swamp cooler is made up of cooling pads. Cool water from an outside reservoir is pumped into the top of the swamp cooler, and the water disburses through the pad. The swamp cooler is located in fron of the rear vent, and air is pulled through the cool wet pads by the exhaust fan located at the other end of the greenhouse. When the air is pulled through, som eof the water evaporates, which cools the air, and is pulled into the greenhouse. Excess water rund into a drain pipe and is returned to the reservoir outside. The air being pulled into the greenhouse is moisturized, which keeps the humidity high. Basically the hot air is removed by the exhaust fan, and it is replaced with cool moist air.

Swamp coolers come in different widths and lengths. Your greenhouse supplier will configure the appropriate size cooler for your greenhouse, as this varies depending on the length and width of the greenhouse, location where you live, and type of plants you wish to grow. With a correctly sized exhaust fan, the swamp cooler can lower the temperature of the greenhouse to the temperature of the water that runs through it. On a hot summer day, standing in front of the operating swamp cooler can feel like your standing in front of a refrigerator.

and as for how much they will drop the temp... this is what i found

if its 20% humidity outside and the temp outside is 95 the air exiting the evaporitive cooler should be around 72. And as the humidity goes up from there the effective cooling ability is reduced

as for price i found one vendow that sells Glacier evap coolers that are 10' long by 2' tall for $630.00 (http://www6.mailordercentral.com/igcusastore/prodinfo.asp?number=GCCS)
 
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I have seen them from Atlas and other suppliers, but they were about $1100 to $1500, which is why I decided to find a cheaper method with the green scrubber pads and wallpaper troughs (less than $120 not accounting for salt). The salt bins (or other type of desiccant) sitting outside the shutters will help dry the incoming air to increase cooling capacity.
To use the commercial evap coolers, I would have to get two smaller units because the intake shutters are on the same end as the door.

I continue to appreciate all the participation and contributions. This project would never have gotten off the ground if it weren't for information from other people being shared like this.
 
Salt bins

Salt bins

How were you planning on doing the salt bins?

It seems like it would be possible to create a frame with fiberglass window screen on each side then put the salt inside the frame. If thin enough for good air-flow, it seems that you could mount this on one side of your vents...
 
I was thinking of a bin (tall and wide enough to cover the shutters with about four inches of space in between for the salt) made out of pvc sheet (or polyethylene or polypropylene) with a bunch of small holes drilled into it. Window screen sounds like a decent idea too as long as it was pulled tight enough so it wouldn't sag from the weight of the salt. Maybe a combination of the two with big holes drilled in the sheet and then lined with screen.
This aspect is yet to be finalized. It is still on the back burner and will be used if needed as a supplement to the evap cooling with the scrubber pads.
 
There seemed to be a few people interested in the blower, so here is a little closer shot of the blower. The two black round objects are the intake filters and the exhaust is the supplied air to the PVC pipe that runs down both side of the greenhouse. At the top of the upright pipe is the gate valve which will control the amount of air going to the PVC system by allowing excess air to be bled off. This will keep the load on the blower to a minimum, hence giving the blower longer life and keeping electric bills lower. Even at full capacity though, the blower will only use about $12 per month. Much cheaper than running extra water pumps for circulation on every tank.
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Most of this last week was dedicated to my family with Christmas rapidly approaching, several other projects and "honey-do" items to finish. There are a few loose ends that are absolute necessities to finish before this project could go any further, like getting a generator online and a water supply hooked up.

I did make a generator purchase with help from a man in our local club named David Lee. I had found this same model online for about $200 more than what our local farm supply was offering it for. When David told me the store had them on sale, I drove down to pick one up. David has also provided me with some advice about how to set up the wiring to supply the power how I want it to be supplied. Thanks for all your help David. That box weighs about four hundred pounds and yes I did, unloaded it alone by sliding it down two 2" x 6" planks off the tailgate of my sister-in-laws truck.
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The generator will start and supply power automatically when the utility power goes out. I went ahead and got one big enough to run the house too. It will run on propane gas which makes it very convenient to not have to carry gasoline to fill it and worry about the gasoline going stale if not in use for extended periods. The switch and power panel below are all pre wired from the factory and make the automatic features possible.
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I also tore into the water main coming in to our house to place a 'T' and make a setting for the separate meter. Now if I can just get the town drunk.. err, I mean water guy to come set the meter, there will be water in the greenhouse. Actually, our usual water guy (not the drunk) suffered a stroke and there is a "part-timer" filling in for him. Come to think of it, I don't really think I want him over here messing with my house in the first place.
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It only took a phone call to the mayor and he was able to set me up with the parts to go ahead and place the meter myself. (Our mayor is actually quite a handyman himself.) Then the remote reader also had to be wired up and mounted outside. As soon as the generator is on line, the filtration equipment can be set up and skimmers start getting built to get a couple of vats of live rock started cycling. By the time the cycling and quarantine are finished, there should be a few tanks and more skimmers built.
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i like the green wrench in the second to last picture. i was wondering if that was going to be your permanent means of support, alas, it was gone in the next pic...


looking good. coming along nicely...
 
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