Let's see 'em - Before and After pics of Vodka Dosing!

Best thread in some time for me!!

redid Tank has been up for 4-5 months.

I tested all levels today as it's on autopilot with my dosing system usually.
Lamotte Alkalinity 125ppm increase time by 10% to target 145ppm
Lamotte Nitrate <0.25 ppm with refugium and wet skimming
Hanna LR Phos 0.02 ppm with BRS GFO change every month
Salifert Calcium 410 ppm
Salifert Magnesium 1350 ppm
TDS RO/DI 000 with new BRS RESIN in May

I guess I'm wondering why I would start Vodka dosing anything with such a low nutrient system. The only algae I have are a short red hair like film on Tunze Streams and and on backs of all snails like they leak phosphates slowly.

I think I am going to go ahead and dose Salifert Amino Acids, and raise Nitrates to 5 ppm with Potassium nitrate manually for a month. I am hoping that small amounts of nitrates will help bacteria and chateomorpha eliminate red film. I think cyanobacteria films create their own Nitrogen and are limited by phosphate availability. Increasing nitrate might help get rid of last bit.

Glad someone had same idea as me. FW plated tank people know this trick. Phosphates present and non-detectable nitrates grow blue-green algae or cyano bacteria. I'm now excited to give it a try

5 ppm for 150 net gallons = ~ 3 gms, but I'll do it in increments.

here's my tank:
http://triadareareefsociety.org/index.php?topic=156.0
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15430752#post15430752 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Zedar
Well i gave it a try. :) The results are very promising.

A little history of my tank.
I started vodka dosing a few years ago to combat a terrible hairalgae problem. If not for vodka, I would have been out of this hobby. I tried everything to rid my tank of HA. Nothing worked like vodka.
With the HA gone i thought my tank would settle down and require nothing but typical maintenance. But then the Cyano started.
My only weapon up till now to rid the tank of this ugly slime was to siphon it off the sand.

So i started dosing after reading this thread. My parameters were as follows:

Nitrates - 0 (unreadable on my cheap API test kit.)
Phosphates - .02 to .03 ( Tropic Marin)

After adding KNO3
Nitrates - 15ppm
Phosphates - same

After 2 weeks
Nitrates - 10ppm
Phosphates - .01

There is NO Cyano in the tank. Even at the end of the day the sand is white!!!!!!!!! And as an added bonus. There is a deeper color to some of my SPS corals. Particularly the Monti.
Click to expand...

You do know that cyano is a nitrogen fixer and it doesn't need any nitrogen from the water column? If you are getting cyano with organic carbon dosing, I'd recommend slowing the additions of organic carbon, or adding a bacterial source. I'm not sure if these are causal factors in reducing cyano, or if the tank was going through a cycle. Not sure.

How long were you have a cyano outbreak?
 
That is the standard advice for the reduction of cyano with Vodka dosing. I do agree with reducing carbon.

There is nothing wrong with bringing nitrates up a bit, and was excited to hear Zedar's inital findings. Buying more prodibio or equivalent is Ok too.

It is exactly true that cyano can fixate nitrogen. That is excatly why nitrates are needed. When nitrates are limited cyano dominates in low nutrient systems. Fresh water planted tank growers have known this trick for decades. Just bring nitrates back up a bit.

I have been doing the same as Zedar this week. I am still optimistic about process but only went to 5 ppm instead of 20 so may take a bit longer.
 
Stony,

I dose bacteria. And ive tried adjusting the amount and and frequency of carbon. The Cyano has been an ongoing problem, till I added the KNO3. The results speak for themselves. At least in my case.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15459542#post15459542 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by slow_leak


It is exactly true that cyano can fixate nitrogen. That is excatly why nitrates are needed. When nitrates are limited cyano dominates in low nutrient systems. Fresh water planted tank growers have known this trick for decades. Just bring nitrates back up a bit.

[/B]
Click to expand...

So due to extremely low levels of NO3, is there only cyano on the reefs?!? I only had the cyano once when I first started experimenting with vodka, I never got it with ZEO. After readjusting my dosing and adding bacteria, never had an issue with cyano on old and new systems (I have a Hach colormeter and have NO3s ~ 0.05-0.075ppm). Since cyano is a nitrogen fixer, cyano would cause an increase in NO3, with your thinking, this would work itself out, albeit on a slower scale than KNO3 additions. If you are having to add KNO3 to bring up your NO3 levels, what's the purpose of using organic carbon?!? PO4 is pretty easy to drop, especially if you use good skimmers....
 
I would speculate when C is not limited N:P ration can be manipulated to not favor cyano growth.

I could also speculate when C is limited N:P ratio that favor cyano growth is different than when C is limited

I don't think I am replicating anything close to a reef though. I would say that when N:P:K ratios can be altered to promote cyano outbreaks over other types of algae. This is not a new concept by any means. Constantly adding bacteria does not happen in a reef either. Perhaps bacteria are starving to death if it is true, and are lacking nitrates.

actually your right. I stopped vodka dosing because nitrate <0.25 ppm were zero and phosphates were 0.03ppm. Whats the point then?

I actually just spike nitrates as needed and cyano subsides over two weeks. Still too new to be certain until I see pattern a few times. Others have reported the same. Cheap and easy method.

In a way siphoning off cyano could work itself out, assuming nitrates are not consumed elsewhere, or a tleast slower.
 
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Cyanobacteria fixes nitrogen for its own use to my understanding, so it does not release nitrogen into the water. If it does I would assume the amount would negligible. So it can thrive in an environment with zero nitrogen and low, but still present phosphorus while everything else (i.e. corals, coraline algae, hair algae) suffers from the lack of nitrogen. This "imbalance", if you will, is the reason for pale corals, cyano outbreaks, and the lack of coraline that some people experience when carbon dosing. Some people dose AA's which is essentially a clean food that breaks down into nitrogen to fix the pale corals and it may also help keep cyano at bay, weather the dosing aquarist knows it or not. But I personally just dose Kno3 to accomplish the same thing for much cheaper.

But, this is all just a theory, so use this information at your own risk =)
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15468420#post15468420 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by slow_leak
I would speculate when C is not limited N:P ration can be manipulated to not favor cyano growth.

I could also speculate when C is limited N:P ratio that favor cyano growth is different than when C is limited

I don't think I am replicating anything close to a reef though. I would say that when N:P:K ratios can be altered to promote cyano outbreaks over other types of algae. This is not a new concept by any means. Constantly adding bacteria does not happen in a reef either. Perhaps bacteria are starving to death if it is true, and are lacking nitrates.

actually your right. I stopped vodka dosing because nitrate <0.25 ppm were zero and phosphates were 0.03ppm. Whats the point then?

I actually just spike nitrates as needed and cyano subsides over two weeks. Still too new to be certain until I see pattern a few times. Others have reported the same. Cheap and easy method.

In a way siphoning off cyano could work itself out, assuming nitrates are not consumed elsewhere, or a tleast slower.
Click to expand...

I agree with your speculation, in theory, as that ratio (C:N:P:Fe) is likely different from different organisms :D What test kit were you using for NO3?
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15469997#post15469997 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Ricardo_Jorge
Does anyone dosed Vodka with DSB???
If yes, tell us your experience...


Hug
Click to expand...

Yes, but you need to go slow, both vodka and DSBs require dissolved oxygen. If you do a DSB, and are patient, you do not need vodka, except in small amounts as a "booster". I've done it...
 
I've been dosing Smirnoff since February 09 and it works for me! The first thing I noticed was a dramatic drop off in nitrates over the first 3 weeks. With that came a steady increase in coral health, growth, and colour. I dose 2ml daily in my 120. I started slowly at 0.25ml daily, bumped 0.25ml weekly, and maxed at 4ml when my NO3 hit 0. Then cut back until I saw a slight up tick in the NO3 and bumped to 2ml per day. This seems to be the right dosage for me. I've since increased my feedings while watching my NO3.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15468583#post15468583 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Marklu
Cyanobacteria fixes nitrogen for its own use to my understanding, so it does not release nitrogen into the water. If it does I would assume the amount would negligible. So it can thrive in an environment with zero nitrogen and low, but still present phosphorus while everything else (i.e. corals, coraline algae, hair algae) suffers from the lack of nitrogen. This "imbalance", if you will, is the reason for pale corals, cyano outbreaks, and the lack of coraline that some people experience when carbon dosing. Some people dose AA's which is essentially a clean food that breaks down into nitrogen to fix the pale corals and it may also help keep cyano at bay, weather the dosing aquarist knows it or not. But I personally just dose Kno3 to accomplish the same thing for much cheaper.

But, this is all just a theory, so use this information at your own risk =)
Click to expand...

Interesting. I stopped zeovit due to cyano outbreaks. My nitrates were undetectable but PO4 remained at .05
Do you think the addition of extra amino acids will help rid the cyano?
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15475408#post15475408 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Reefer08
Interesting. I stopped zeovit due to cyano outbreaks. My nitrates were undetectable but PO4 remained at .05
Do you think the addition of extra amino acids will help rid the cyano?
Click to expand...

Give it a try. Although i would dose KNO3 instead of extra AA's.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15474362#post15474362 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by stony_corals
I agree with your speculation, in theory, as that ratio (C:N:P:Fe) is likely different from different organisms :D What test kit were you using for NO3?
Click to expand...

I am fortunate I have access to just about anything from spectrometers on down.

I use HANNA LR Phosphate at home. I blank with tank water. I also have Lamotte Nitrate LR to 0.25 ppm NO3-N. Reading beneath that can be estimated.

All other test kits are Lamotte or Salifert. Adjusting N:P:K is not really a theory if you know desired levels

It's such an old idea its not really a theory. Bump phosphates up to 0.2 in a low nutrient quarantine tank and check out results. :cool: What is a theory to me is adding AA instead of nitrates...
 
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Update:

Tested Nitrate last night. Its a cheap API kit, so the values are close at best.

Nitrate = 8

Still no Cyano anywhere. Sand is white.... even at the end of the day. :)

Slow_leak thanks for mentioning this idea. :)

I read about this in the past and even purchased the kno3 but I had never followed through with it.
 
Slow_leak thanks for mentioning this idea.
Click to expand...

I over did it a bit with KNO3 dosing, but not to the point I had detrimental effects. I would target 3-5 ppm in the future. I did not see a great correlation between adding X grams and getting Y ppm NO3 with test kit. Cyano can be quick to run out of energy once conditions improve, in fresh water tanks too.

It is curious that experiences fresh water planted tank growers will do the opposite. They will maintain 5-10 ppm Nitrate and spike phosphates as needed based on observing the plants growth, with a continuous source of carbon using pH control under a controlled kH value. Often soft well water is all that is need and water changes.
 
Just spike when first signs of cyano appear in very low nutrient reef tank.

grams KNO3 ~= 5 mg/l target * 3.84 l/ gallon * total gallons * 1000 mg/gram

Might redose when nitrates less than 1 mg/l AND if cyano still present
 
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