Lets talk about lighting an SPS tank

[kirei]

I don't know if you know the Sun Aquatics 14KK but they are pretty damn blue... I like 'em, the Sun Ray Aquatics (maybe these are all CDN companies) 20KK are way whiter, and the XM 14K are yellower and "dirtier" (very scientific i is). MY other problem is that the current DE is burning a hole in the center brace... sweet. I was wondering as per this discussion if the two 250DE would be too much light? I don't have money to buy actinic t-5 or VHO to supplement so I was just wondering the best alternative... thanks for the advice. I was also told to keep them parallel to the tank by my friend at a LFS whom I trust (Archie Luz, I mean he has a TOTM on RKeeping... so he seems smart). Just wondering the logic in terms of spread. I have looked at Sanjay's stuff about perp/parallel but I am not sure I understand, I don't think the reflector was designed to be run perpendicular... could you explain?

Thanks

 

[chevell]

currently using 8 VHO'S 110 watt output

currently using 8 VHO'S 110 watt output

I'm using 8 VHO's lamps now on my 150 reef. I just got a simi purple samoensis from reefermadness the other day. It looked ok when I got it and it had been in reefer's tank for awhile before I bought it. It did'nt look quite like the picture but it was a healthy nice piece and after three weeks under my VHO "about 4 inches from top of water" it's so purple it's almost black, brilliant unreal purple. I also have another a. valida 10 inches round and as tall, taken from a 400 watt halide tank that had purple tips only on the side facing the bulb and now two weeks later it's purple not only on all sides but the base and any other part exposed to light is rapidly turning purple now. I also bought what looked like an ice blue ricordea rock with 30 polyps from the same tank with the halides and when I put it in my tank it looked to be a bright purple. I don't know what to say exept that i'm only using 520 watts for a rated output of 880 watts with very little heat build up during the day just using one icecap 4 inch thermo control fan. My tank is thirty inches deep and has plenty of light at the bottom for caps sps digi's LPS what ever. My tank is far from stocked on sps but growth is fast with what I have now.Really dissapointing to see that almost everyone selling corals tells you to get heat producing, electricity gobbling, halides when there are clearly other lighting options that are not being pointed out.

 

[maxxII]

Talk is cheap Chevell. Proof is in the pics!!!




Nick

 

[chevell]

lets "talk" about lighting

lets "talk" about lighting

Like the topic says "talk" about lighting, not post pics of stuff. And I'll have a few nice ones in the gallery pretty soon when I get enough sps in my tank.

 

[ATJ]

Talk is cheap Chevell. Proof is in the pics!!!

These are pictures of corals in my 60 gallon (48x14x20") lit by 4 x 36/40W normal output tubes on normal output ballasts.

Stylophora pistillata

Seriatopora hystrix

Acropora aculeus

A. intermedia

 

[NuclearReefs]

nice pics ATJ,,, looks good..

 

[chevell]

Nice pics man

Nice pics man

But posting pics here is a bit off topic which is "talking" about lighting."Agreed, some nice SPS tanks are VHO only." Halides will be used in my tank for shimmering effect and because my bulbs are 4 feet and my tank is 5 feet I have some space for spot lighting if I slide the bulbs over to one side. Getting nice color in my tank is no problem with over 1050 watts over a 5 foot tank. Nice color you have there with normal bulbs? floresent bulbs? Garf uses those over sps tanks and they put the bulbs and corals as close together as they can and get great color that way.

 

[maxxII]

Chevell,
My desire to see some pictures of the corals in your tank is two fold.
1st... when discussing about differing methods of doing things on the internet, its easy to run into skeptics who doubt that things can be done non traditionally. These skeptics will be able to see that corals can indeed be grown in VHO/PC systems and look colorful as well. I've seen it happen so I am aware that it can be done, but there are many others who say it cant be, or arent aware that it can be. A photo adds support to the position that there is more than one way to do things.
2nd...Pictures have a way of sparking discussion and comments. Like now. This thread could use a little bump in activity and that was intended by asking to see photo's of your corals.

Finally, the topic of this thread is "Lets talk about lighting an SPS tank", not "Lets talk about lighting an SPS tank, but dont post any pictures"

Nice pics btw ATJ. Its interesting that your running NO bulbs over these corals and still getting the hot pink color of the stylophora and the pretyt green of the other acro.
How long have you had these particular corals, where are they located in the tank in regards to light intensity (high or low), and what kind of growth rates are you getting in this tank from these corals?

Nick

 

[pjpeels]

Thought I would add my setup.

-2x250watt Iwasakis 6500k Mounted on very old and flat CSLife reflectors that look like they have been through a tornado.
On Blue Line Ballasts
-2x54watt ATI Blue Plus Run on RetroKit
- All In DIY Hood

On an 80 gallon

Have always had excellent growth with the 6500k Iwasakis, and they are only $60 a bulb.

Have had a couple of different actinic supplementation setups. I really like the two T-5 bulbs. Looks good now, but I would not hesitate in adding 1 or 2 more of the blue plus or actinic bulbs.

pjpeels

 

[ATJ]

Originally posted by maxxII

Nice pics btw ATJ. Its interesting that your running NO bulbs over these corals and still getting the hot pink color of the stylophora and the pretyt green of the other acro.

It is not all that surprising when you have seen quite colourful Acropora, etc. in relatively deep water (20-40m) on coral reefs.

How long have you had these particular corals, where are they located in the tank in regards to light intensity (high or low), and what kind of growth rates are you getting in this tank from these corals?

The S. pistillata and S. hystrix were added around 5 months ago, the A. aculeus nearly 4 months ago and the A. intermedia just under 3 months ago.

All the corals are 6-8" from the lights. They receive around 100 ìE.m^-2.s^-1 for 16 hours a day. Growth rates have been OK, nothing stellar, although I tend to find that initial growth rates are slow, especially after fragging and moving.

Here are a couple of growth sequences:

S. pistillata

S. hystrix

 

[maxxII]

Nice images ATJ. All of my scuba diving has been in Hawaii where there isnt as much coral growth. I knew sps cold be kept in VHO set ups, but had never really thought NO set ups would be veryy successful.
Thanks for sharing.

Nick

 

[chevell]

no lighting

no lighting

If you go to Garf's pages they have a bunch of small tank's with the rocks piled up high to get sps closer to the bulbs, they end up with some stunning colors with only NO lighting. The VHO set-up i'm using is very bright with the eight 4' bulbs i'm using and I do have to start alot of sps corals a bit deeper in the tank then work up towards the top to avoid burning. Pi, is a guy who posts alot of nice pictures of his sps tank being run with only VHO and he's just using six 4' bulbs. You can see his tank in the sps picture thread's. My tank is still far from packed with sps but i'm working on that as money permits. I'm keeping larger ocean frags alive in my system no problem and the color of sps always seems to get better in my tank no matter where the frags come from. I can see that the intensity at this point is easily up to halide standards, with more even light distribution than any single bulb set up. Measureing par values between a halide and VHO can't be done acurately because the output of the bulbs is completly different, one a glowing filiment and the other with the bright part going down the length of the bulb being distributed much more evenly.

 

[ATJ]

Re: no lighting

Re: no lighting

Measureing par values between a halide and VHO can't be done acurately because the output of the bulbs is completly different, one a glowing filiment and the other with the bright part going down the length of the bulb being distributed much more evenly.

This statement is not true at all - on a couple of levels.

First of all, a metal halide lamp is not a "glowing filiment". You are getting confused with incandescent lamps. The light from a metal halide lamp comes from the gas and materials in the arc - which is why they are known as gas discharge lamps.

Second, and more importantly, light is light and the PAR can be measured no matter how the light is created. If you have a quantum meter you can measure the PAR. PAR (photosynthetically available radiation) is simply the number of photons of light in the range 400 to 700 nm hitting an area over a certain time. It doesn't matter how those photons were created as long as they have the appropriate wavelength. Certainly, you will potentially get higher PAR directly under a metal halide lamp than you would under a fluorescent tube because the light is coming from a point light source, but the measured PAR will still be accurate.

 

[ReefRockerLive]

I have a question regarding light and light temperature.
I have Dual 400w MH and 4x32 PC Actinics under a 75g reef that is soon to be an SPS tank.
The bulbs that are being run are 20k Radiums. Will these bulbs show great coloration in SPS frags and colonies. The water quality is good.
Would there be a different bulb that would show more of SPS coral's treat color? Should I change up my 20k Radiums for 20k XM's?

 

[fishdoc11]

Lots of people run Radiums and generally they have great coloration with those bulbs. I have talked with several experienced sps keepers that tried XM 20K's only to switch back to Radiums
Chris

 

[ReefRockerLive]

I guess I have the good bulbs. That good to know.

 

[cschumaker]

This may have been addressed already in this thread, but if so I lost it somewhere in the pages of replies. LOL

Basic light theory says that objects that appear blue, for example, are reflecting the blue wavelength back and absorbing the other colors. I imagine this would mean that the coral is using the other colors of the spectrum for photosynthesis and not using the blue. I do know there has been studies done on photosynthesis that shows that plants use red and yellow light for photosynthesis and not green. It showed that the "plant" bulbs sold make your plants look better since there is more green light buy may not actually be providing the light to make them grow faster. I looked at some of these at Wal-mart just to see what the packaging says, and it stated that it made plants look better and did not mention growth.
Just some thoughts. =)

 

[chevell]

first off it is a glowing filament

first off it is a glowing filament

Yes they glow and there is a filament used in a mecury vapor vacume tube for halides. Second the only way to measure par accuratly in the spectrum that were using is with a very expensive par meter...very expensive as in 15 grand which by the way is not the one being used here.Do you have one of those meters and done experiments with it? Third, there is no way to measure accuratly the par values between a halide and a VHO because they are completly different light sources both working on completly different theorys one still a glowing filament in a mecury vapor vacume tube the other glowing gas that is ignited and spread down the length of the bulb as in not the same "at all" as far as light intensity at a given point, you yourself admits to the point light source but then make the claim that i'm completly wrong??? Not to mention there are no equal values in the wattage range of either bulb so no fair comparison can be made between the two bulbs. Stop trying to make an arguement with nothing to substanciate what your saying. You said yourself measuring at point light source directly under the bulb of a halide would not be a fair compairson yet you claim that when I said the same thing that I was wrong?? And if the statement by the guy with the par meter is so correct then why would those "former" metal halide guys say they tested their VHO'S on three diff "former" halide tanks and all three showed better color and growth with the VHO's, yet the guy with the meter showed the halides to be five times brighter or what ever it was. If the par meter showed them to be so much brighter then why the results from the guys who switched to the VHO's? Which would clearly indicate that the VHO's are actually brigher or better spectrum or what ever made them work better I don't know. That is just the opposite of what we might expect from the givin par reading we got a few thread pages ago. There seems to be alot of variables here that no one seems to be able to explain, but for you to simply say that I was wrong seems just a bit presumptious and arguementive to me, and with no way to back up your claim your really outa line here. Oh and by the way you really should employ something to eat that algae in your tank.

 

[johns]

The point is that PAR is PAR. Regardless of you using VHO or MH bulbs, if you measure PAR, you will get a representation of how many photons are hitting a specific spot (it doesn't matter which bulbs you are using above the spot, you can still make a comparison based on the relative number of photons).

You are equating the different light sources and theories with an inability to measure their properties. Yes they may have different intensities based on the different working mechanisms, but that should just be reflected in the readings you get. It's like saying that you cant measure the weight of 2 materials because one is made out of a liquid and one is made out of a gas.

As far as the rest of your argument about people switching back to VHO from MH (I'm not saying it isn't true because I'm sure it happens), but I think you are assuming that there must be errors in the PAR measurements becauase how could the lower PAR VHO coloration and growth be better than the higher PAR MH. Well, there's a pretty big assumption there that higher PAR (more intensity) always must equal better coloration and growth. I dont know if that assumption is always true, and I agree with you that there are probably so many other variables that you cant easily make it.

 

[chevell]

so not quite "completly wrong"

so not quite "completly wrong"

I was indeed talking about the diff between the bulbs not weather the par is an acurate measurement and like I stated before the only par meter that can make an acurate measurement in our spectrums are the very exspensive ones that no one really seems to have. And presently im seeing way more color in my tank on pieces that were in a so called 400 watt 20K tank and actually sun burning others and having to move them down near the bottom. This while only consuming 540 watts in a 150 gallon tank. NO way is any combo of 2 250 watt halides and some tiny actinic going to touch the brighness of my tank which would use the same wattage that i'm using now. So to me that whole par thing seems like a very inacurate way of measuring things.