Lets talk about Vodka/sugar dosing

[Reefflections]

Genetics,
Again thanks for all your input here.Just to give you and update as where I stand now.I have lowered my Nitrates to 0 now.Which I'm really happy about.Some of the corals are still a little brown,but not as dark as before.The have some corals where they have gotten lighter.So the system seems to be running half and half as for coloration goes.But I still see the pesty algae.I saw where is takes maybe as long as 3 weeks.But can you get caught up in the middle where corals are getting light in color.Yet it seems the algae is still kicking butt?Just keep riding this thing out to around 3 weeks.I do have a few Zeo additives that I can add.But afraid it could just fuel the algae,at this point in time.Just trying to figure the best coarse of action here
Thanks my frind

 

[stony_corals]

Reeflections, first, nothing is going to make a brown coral anything other than brown, so if your test for NO3 is correct, you may simply have a brown corals .... carbon dosing won't fix that... The other thing is that microalgae is really efficient at getting minute amount of N (whether that is from ammonium or nitrate), for example, on the reefs there is micro algae, its the herbavores that keep it in balance, not a lack of nutrients.... I wouldn't do anything that you're doing now, other than physical removal... I'd wait until your algae is minimized, then consider starting the zeo additives. (I know, not what you wanted to hear).

FoothillCorals, why do you want to add multiple sources of carbon? You can mix them together, just don't know if you'll see any benefit over just dosing one...

 

[Reefflections]

stonry_corals,
Thanks you fpr your reply here:
As for this one coral.It's a rare old coral.It was very pastel in color with lavendar tips.It's a Bali when they were imported big time here in the states.It had it color.I usually don't test for nitrates because I do weekly water changes.But I did test as it was above 20 nitrates.And my panes I had to clean every 2 days.That is why at had to look at water quality.It and algae had to see with the naked eye.It's down in the pores of the live rock.Snails and crabs,can't get down in the pores to remove all of it.It's very fine and short type of algae.Veryshort stands.It seems to be in very small clumps.as for you see in the wholes of the porous rock.It reminds you the early stages of the hairy algae.But it never grows long at all,as we see in hair algae.
But being this Bali coral did have color.I'm thinking with the high nutrients,the color shift has taken place.This is why I look into the sugar,vodka,ect thread here.Being water changes didn't fix my problem,and nitrates were up.Like I said I'm happy to see the traits down now.But this type of dasage does it take a 3 weeks or so to kick into over drive.Being no matter why we do to reef tanks,it always takes time to see any out come.Not always and instant fix.Stoney are you still with me here?Also all new bulbs are new,so that's no fueling it.

 

[FoothillCorals]

stony-corals,
It seems a lot of people do this believing it leads to more diverse bacteria strains. I have no idea if this is true, but after seeing pics of miwoodar's tank on page 21 of this thread I figured it is worth a try.

 

[isseym328]

I went to the market and bought a kroger 70% isopropyl alcohol and thinking about using it. I'm also contemplating using a UV sterilizer to get rid of algae bloom/growth. Which one would you guys use?

 

[Canarygirl]

I don't think isoproypl alcohol is safe to use but wait to hear from somebody else before making a decision one way or another...

 

[PSam]

I have never heard of rubbing alcohol being dosed as a carbon source. No way I would put it in the tank. Isopropanol is not ethanol (like vodka). I am not sure 100% either but I would really wait to hear... maybe holler at the chemistry forum.

 

[fishfanatic06]

I think I remember reading somewhere that Isopropanol dosing in a reef tank would be a very bad, disasterous idea.

 

[reefsahoy]

question for all vodka dosers. i started dosing vodka and after a few weeks noticed a white hair like mat on rocks and walls that are not reachable with magnet cleaners. this hair like mat is very fine and does not seem to affect the corals. could this be from dosing too much vodka? i've stopped dosing to see if it will go away but just looking for some input/advice from anyone who may have had this result show up in their tank.

 

[doonan75]

It is more than likely a bacterial mat. Try cutting back on the vodka. It's been said that weening down the vodka rather than abruptly stopping is better.

 

[doonan75]

It is more than likely a bacterial mat. Try cutting back on the vodka. It's been said that weening down the vodka rather than abruptly stopping is better.

 

[Genetics]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12360584#post12360584 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by isseym328
I went to the market and bought a kroger 70% isopropyl alcohol and thinking about using it.

Though the potential exists (and has been shown) that bacteria can utilize isopropanol one should realize that there is a distinct difference between that and ethanol. Ethanol that is purchased in the store is considered food grade and consumable by humans. Since isopropanol is not a consumable food it does not need testing and could contain a large range of impurities. Additionally, isopropanol poses risks to humans when long-term exposure occurs. Ethanol, on the otherhand, is broken down/converted by the liver into a non-toxic substance allowing one to have much more exposure with less severe consequences over time. I would stick to food grade ethanol and not bother with isopropanol.

Also, I refer to food-grade ethanol which at the age of 21 in the US can be purchased. There exists other grades of ethanol, which contain impurities such as benzene, that should not be added to your tank.

 

[Genetics]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12358466#post12358466 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Reefflections
Genetics,
Again thanks for all your input here.Just to give you and update as where I stand now.I have lowered my Nitrates to 0 now.Which I'm really happy about.Some of the corals are still a little brown,but not as dark as before.The have some corals where they have gotten lighter.So the system seems to be running half and half as for coloration goes.But I still see the pesty algae.I saw where is takes maybe as long as 3 weeks.But can you get caught up in the middle where corals are getting light in color.Yet it seems the algae is still kicking butt?Just keep riding this thing out to around 3 weeks.I do have a few Zeo additives that I can add.But afraid it could just fuel the algae,at this point in time.Just trying to figure the best coarse of action here
Thanks my frind

Hey no prob. Just glad I could help. Stony_coral makes a good point on algae. I believe the 3 week waiting is purely anecdotal. I think what these people are refering to is green mat hair algae that is seen growing on rocks that starts to decrease at 3 weeks. This may actually result from phosphates that have been taken up into the rock and are slowly being leached back into the water. After a period (~3 weeks) you should have less leaching of phosphates back into the water and the algae starts to decrease because it has fallen below a critical concentration of phosphate for growth (or at least a concentration for rapid growth). The decrease spoken of is probably not due to die-off but grazing of herbiovores in the tank.

 

[Harley-J]

I have started dosing a combination of Vodka/Vinegar/Sugar daily..I used to just dose sugar when the water changes could not keep up with No3 levels...I love the results I see regarding my corals and overall parameters...But from reading, dosing carbon not only increases beneficial bacteria but also the negative bacs..Although my corals are doing great my Scopus Tang started to grow a white cauliflower type growth on his mouth...after a week it is gone... but do you think that this is contributed by the carbon dosing?

 

[isseym328]

Whew good thing I posted that or I'd be in big trouble. I really thought any type of "alcohol" would be usable to introduce carbon to the tank. Lesson learned. Thanks!

 

[stony_corals]

I'm with Genetics on this... if your live rock is loaded with nutrients, you may test low nutrients and have algae growing well... Most test kits aren't really good at measuring low nutrients... While having low nutrients is important to limit algae growth, it won't eliminate it completely, for the reason that I previously posted - micro algaes ability to utilize nutrients at very low levels.

Some further thoughts.... When NO3 is reduced to N2, N effectively leaves our systems. However, P doesn't have the same gaseous state, when bacteria oxidize PO4 to utilize the O for respiration, are they consuming the P, or is it combining with elements such as Ca and precipitating? What happens to P? If it's becomes, somehow, part of the bacterial biomass (don't care how), which can then be removed from our systems via skimming and water changes, then P limitation is also possible at some point.

I've heard some stories of fish getting diseases.. its hard to say what the cause is. The argument (just stating it...) for dosing bacteria strains (a la Zeo and Prodibio) is the cultivation of specific strains. While in simple carbon dosing, we are taking what's already in the system (assuming many different?!?), and culturing them, good or bad. I've heard of people experiencing some outbreaks of disease with they 'mess' with their DSB, it is also for this reason..... In this case, Harley-J, I'd run a UV for your poor scopas tang....

I don't know about the different carbon sources causing differing strains to culture, its logical, just don't know.

 

[graveyardworm]

In this case, Harley-J, I'd run a UV for your poor scopas tang....

Wouldnt running a UV kill the bacteria that are utilizing the Carbon source, and wrelease the bound nutrients back to the water column before the bacteria are pulled out by the skimmer. I would think this would also cause a shift in nutrient export pathways from carbon driven bacteria back to what would normally be found in the LR/Sand bed which are now at low levels due to competition. Possibly leading to ammonia and other nutrients spikes.

 

[Harley-J]

In this case, Harley-J, I'd run a UV for your poor scopas tang....

I don't run UV but I do run Ozone...After I read Farleys paper on Ozone and bacteria use...I felt confident and decided that I would go ahead and keep my ozone running during my dosing..
I have been monitoring the No3 decline during this, to use as a gauge..It has been a slow decline...probably next Friday I will start with no ozone and see if the decline is faster...

Wouldnt running a UV kill the bacteria that are utilizing the Carbon source, and wrelease the bound nutrients back to the water column before the bacteria are pulled out by the skimmer.

You bring up a good question David and now put another into my head..Not a lot of guys run ozone and dose together...So I dont have alot to go from...I run my ozone through my skimmer and since I do that, normal skimmate production is low...I wonder since my skimmer is acting more as a reactor than a skimmer, maybe that's why my No3 decline is slower, do to extraction?..or is the ozone actually killing bacteria, besides Farleys report and creating a full circle of nutrients??

 

[OnlyCrimson]

Couple more quick questions for those who know.

1. I want to start dosing vinegar and vodka. Is it acceptable to mix them to one solution?

2. Should I still run GFO while dosing or no?

 

[Harley-J]

I mix all 3 together using Glassbox's formula of 200ml’s Vodka, 50ml’s vinegar, and 1.5tbsp sugar..start dosage is .50 per every 20g..Here is the link to his suggestions..
http://glassbox-design.com/2008/achieved-through-observation-and-experimentation/
I run GFO but alot of the low nutrient systems recomend that you dont...only because I feed my fish like kings...there so fat sometimes they cant squezze between the rocks anymore!!