Let's Talk About Water Movement in an SPS Tank.

[NanoReefer53]

Hmm . . i'm kind of dissapointed at my current water flow. I'm setting up a 37g tall right now and I thought a Mag7 would be good enough as a return pump and for flow. Do you guys think that a Seio would be too much flow ? The tank is 30x12x22 by the way.

 

[joetbs]

I just set up a 30g breeder to prop stuff in and I'm running a Mag 9.5 into a SCWD through a closed loop into the top back corners, with 45 degree elbows pointing up and towards the center. I also have 2 Seio 620s opposing each other on a wavemaker. I am just using a big eggcrate rack in the middle with some branch rock around it. Hopefully the ORA assessors can handle the flow.

joe

 

[Valab]

I hope this isn't too off topic, but for you folks with tunze streams and/or 20X or 30X flows, do your fish do ok? Can you keep fish like tangs, perculas or butterflys with those high flows?

 

[MiddletonMark]

When I added flow, including major flow to where one of my Percs likes to hang out ... I wondered.
Now he hangs out more often there ... getting blown half a foot when he catches the flow.

I'd say they like it, but I don't speak fish.

 

[mhurley]

I hope this isn't too off topic, but for you folks with tunze streams and/or 20X or 30X flows, do your fish do ok? Can you keep fish like tangs, perculas or butterflys with those high flows?

Let's see, I have 2 ampmaster 3000's and 2 Streams. So let's call it 12,000 GPH divided into a 330 display tank, that's roughtly 36X. Of course there's head loss but you get the idea.

My fish (yellow tang and 2 hippo tangs, chromis, clown, bi-color angel) truly seem unaffected...In fact, I'm adding a Tunze Wave box as soon as they are released. I've never seen my fish "fighting" the water flow.

 

[reefnroll]

David P -

What pump are you using with your OceansMotions 4-way? I just set mine up too... couldn't be happier with the way it rocks the reef... but I may change out the pump at some point. Right now I am using a Mag 18 on a 125 reef... closed loop as you have.

bec

 

[greg65]

I would say the flow in my tank is extremely good right now.
Im running a sequence 5200 as the return, into a OCEAN MOTION 4 way in each corner of the tank. Ive played around with various fitting to eliminate dead spots.

Im also running a mag 18 on a closed loop blowing through the back of the rockwork.

Then i run a 45 gallon surge using a 1 1/2" actuated ballvalve, surging around 35-40 gallons in 50 seconds every 3 minutes. Nice , strong, dispersed flow..........and NO bubbles.

I had a stream6000 in the center of the tank blowing against the front glass. But decided right now i really dont need it.

Oceanmotion and tunze streams are incredible products that REALLY help in covering the whole tank in flow but.........IMO, nothing beats a really well designed Surge setup.

My corals love me for it ! :^)

-Greg-

 

[RGibson]

Mhurley- how far will one tunze stream move the water across the tank?

 

[David P]

reefnroll, Im running an ampmaster 2700 on my HD 4way. Im thinking of spending the $50 and changing the impeller to a 3600. If I do that, Ill also probably change drums in the oceans motions so that two ports work at the same time.

 

[reefnroll]

Thanks David -

I'm checking around to see what people are using with these OM units. My Mag 18 really does a great job as far as volume of water tossed around, however... I'm (suddenly) having some cavitation issues (at least I think that's what going on) so I may be looking to change over to something else. Is your AM 2700 plumbed right beneath your 120, or is there some distance involved to create greater head? Is the OM down below the tank... or up top? That seems like a whole lot of power for a closed loop on a 4 foot tank.. but if you have a bare bottom - which I see you do - I suppose there's really no downside to contained chaos.

b

 

[Xx_de_xX]

I hope this isn't too off topic, but for you folks with tunze streams and/or 20X or 30X flows, do your fish do ok? Can you keep fish like tangs, perculas or butterflys with those high flows?

My fish didn't like it and ended up trying to hang out in the "sump", which they didn't like either.

 

[Julio]

i have one stream in my tank and is in the top of the tank, the anthias love the current and my clowns do as well as they hang out in it all the time, all the other fish swim all over.

 

[David P]

reefnroll: http://www.home.earthlink.net/~ampeg/image/Fish/120/closedloopsmall.jpg
They say a picture is worth a thousand words.

I have about 30x turn over in my tank, I have a flameback angel, pair of ocelleris clowns, bi colored blenny, rabbit fish, and a lawnmower blenny. All fish seem to enjoy the jets of water coming out of the 1.5 ports at almost 3000 gph. They turn it into a game, all of the smaller fish (not the angel or rabbit) take turns hiding in the ports when the water is off then geting shot across the tank like a human cannonball when the blast of water comes. The angel doesnt seem to care at all about the current, but I dont think the rabbit likes it too much. Hes too tall and flat, if he swims by when the curent changes, you see him swim sideways for a second then swims really fast to get out of the jet.

 

[reefnroll]

Hey David -

Oh yeah... I remember seeing that set-up on the OM thread (I think). Nice plumbing job; and It's great that the fish enjoy the ride but how are the corals looking and handling that 30x turnover flow?

bec

 

[JB NY]

Sorry, been on vacation this week, so I was on and off line a lot.

When talking about 10X, 20x and 50x turnover. I think it is much easier to achieve those really high (30x and higher) rates when the tank is relatively new. As the corals grow large they end up closer to the powerhead outputs. Making them either cut off flow to other or they run the possibility of self destructing due to being too close to the powerhead output. Turnover rates of around 15X to 20X seem to be more common in more mature tanks. That's why I first posted on what the flow around the corals should look like. regardless of what kind of turnover you have the main thing to keep in mind is the coral needs to have good flow all around it.

FWIW I have 21X turnover in my tank.

RGibson. I don't know what I would do with a new tank. I would definitely look into those Ocean Motion units that Bec was writing about.Also those new wave boxes that Tunze is coming out with. I also find the tunze stream moves water completely to the other side of my tank (6 feet).

 

[herbert4]

I have a plumbing question for the best flow.

First of all here is what I have:
1) 135gal tank 72"L x 18"W x 24"T
2) sump/refug under stand
3) CL with a 4way Oceansmotions powered by a Sequence Dart
4) The tank will be viewed on 3 sides
5) On the blind side I have 3 holes drilled for the overflow to Sump (brown)
6) Each corner of bottom is drilled for returns from CL (blue) it will be plumbed to have 2 returns on right flow then the 2 on left, creating an alternating side to side flow with the 4way.
7) I want a mixed reef with a few fish.

My question(s) are:
1) would it be best for sump return to go where the red circles are?
2) Would a spraybar (green) be a good idea here, thinking it would be under rock / corals.
3) Would the CL supply work where the pink circles are?


any suggestions / comments would be very helpful. Remember the brown and blue holes are already drilled.

Thanks in advance.
:bum:

 

[F8LPONY]

I wonder if in setting up a new tank where you can't watch polyp movement and such if it would be helpful to add a tiny bit of air to your main outlet line so that small bubbles are created and pushed into the tank where they will swirl around and you can kinda map out the flow and help you to direct your outlet tubes.

Or maybe a simple air pump with an airstone on it in the tank?

 

[massman]

F8LPONY dropping flake food in will give you a good idea of the water movement.

 

[JB NY]

Injecting some air will work. But the main problem IMO is flow throughout the tank. You just need to spend some time watching the corners and any corals in places to make sure they are all getting good flow. The air can help, but I think you can do it well without using air.

 

[mikefish]

Well, I just got the closed loop completed - the last phase of my flow upgrade project for my 135. I now have 2 Tunze 6100's, a Sequence Stingray on the closed loop going through an Oceans Motion HD 4-way, and a Little Giant 5MD returning water from the sump. I think that's a theoretical turnover of 82x! Of course, the Tunzes are set up on tide simulation so only 1 are on at any one time, and then alternate between 30 and 80% flow. And the Sequence is throttled back a bit as well. The LG is working against about a 10ft head as my sump is in the basement. In practice I'm probably looking at about 40-50x turnover.

The fish are 2 Zebrasomas tangs and an Idol, and they don't seem to mind. They fight it and get knocked around a bit, but they don't make any effort to hide from it. Sometimes they seem to fight it for fun. The corals (all sps) aren't complaining yet. So much flow seemed strange at first, because I'd never seen it in an aquarium like that. But when I started looking at it as a real reef and not an aquarium, it suddenly fit.
Mike