Let's Talk About Water Movement in an SPS Tank.

[Lowredranger]

not sure if anyone is still reading this thread but i will give it a shot. i have a 35g hex and i am planning on stacking the rock in a cone configuration. i was looking into a seio 620 making a circular flow around the rock starting in the back and either another seio pointing the other direction in the back or recently have been looking at the closed loop how much direct current can most sps take i was think with a 1200gph pump i could put 6 outlets one on every side which would be shooting about 200gph out of the six sides what do you guys think about this flow.
thanks Jason

 

[JB NY]

Hi Jason,

That will work fine. I don't know if you read the thread or not. The basic idea is to watch your corals to make sure they are getting good, flow. The actual turnover amount is not as important, but by making sure they have good flow you will hit the 15-20X anyway. With a new tank it is very easy to get good flow throughout the tank as there are very little obstructions, as the coral grow is when you need to periodically get and re adjust your flow.

 

[Lowredranger]

ok so if i use a closed loop system on a hex and put an outlet on each side and use a dolphin pump at 2000gph if i have 5 outlets that is 400gph out of say either 1-3/4 outlet. depending on if i can mount it with no head otherwise it will have about 300gph. i was also thinking of puting one of the seio 620 pushing the water around the tank. so i guess my main question is if the 300-400 gph is not too much directly at the corals i need to know how to get the water out of the tank? Will the pump just suck the water out or does it have to be siphoned i did not really want to drill but the tank is against a wall and i thought i could keep the pump level with the top of the tank and put the pump in the closet. how do you think this would work.
thanks
Jason

 

[stevedola]

Closed loop in a 75

Closed loop in a 75

Im setting up a 75 gallon and intended on drilling for a closed loop. I havent decide yet but was leaning towards not using an OM squirt for random movement, rather just positioning 4 heads to create misdirectional flow. My question deals with my concern of SPS flow- how many GPH should I use inorder to ensure proper flow for the high current needed for SPS corals. I was thinking of a velocity T4 pump that operates at 1200ghp...is that enough or should I go with a pump rated for 1500 ghp?

ps-4 ft head loss

 

[JB NY]

If it's a new tank, shoot for 15-20X. When the tank is young the flow is easy to attain. When the corals start growing is when you have to really pay atttention.

 

[stevedola]

ok then...maybe a Quiet One 6000? (1500gph)
would 20 times be alright?

 

[JB NY]

that would work well.

 

[MiddletonMark]

Hi Jason,

That will work fine. I don't know if you read the thread or not. The basic idea is to watch your corals to make sure they are getting good, flow. The actual turnover amount is not as important, but by making sure they have good flow you will hit the 15-20X anyway. With a new tank it is very easy to get good flow throughout the tank as there are very little obstructions, as the coral grow is when you need to periodically get and re adjust your flow.

You keep saying the same thing, but only because it is so true.

#'s can be deceiving, as I've had more flow than I do now - but feel I'm `using it' better and have lost the stagnant areas I had even with more gph going thru the tank.
[I'm at around 30-35x, down from over 40 this summer]

And with frags now grown into colonies in some cases - flow is more tricky and needed to be re-adjusted [and will again]. While I hate the cords, having adjustable ph's/streams/seios helped the slow-flow areas get improved. Sometimes each method has a particular strength that others might not.

Joe, as time goes by, I appreciate your knowledgable advice even more

 

[Lowredranger]

so with a 35 hex tank i was trying to utilize the closed loop system. my problem comes not with actual turnover but more with the limits of the corals because i cannot have so much flow that they get damaged. so out of a 1" inch pvc at about 10 inchs away would 200gph be too much coming out of 6 outlets or for my flow should i have a 1500gph pump with 6 outlets at 215gph and 1 outlet going into a sqwd what do you all think the tank is 24" deep and 24" across from corners and i have a 4" sandbed so cant have any sandstorms. thanks for all of the help.
Jason

 

[Funky_Fish14]

I've found that when using high volume pumps (closed loops, Streams), a great way to manage a lot of flow is to bank it off the glass. You lose some of the direct velocity, but it creates very random currents - you can get behind and under rocks in ways not possible with outputs blazing right over the rockwork.

Just wanted to say that I am doing this and it works very well.

I have a standard 33g tank(36L, 12W, 18H), and I have a 402 hagen powerhead in one corner of my tank. Its near the top because I have a quickfilter attachment on it. Anyways, The output is 270g/h, it has a very high velocity at the output, but its fairly concentrated as someone pointed out about powerheads. Anyways, I have it aimed to a point about 8" toward the center on the front glass. It creates a wave on the glass, but I get current in most of the tank from it. I even have good flow in spots I wouldnt expect. My other flow unit is a powersweep powerhead, I think those are great powerheads because of the constant back and forth motion of the output, with a directional piece.

Chris

 

[RGibson]

Joe on my 180 gal tank i have two Iwaki MD55RLT pumps.One pump is used for the return with two outlets about 4 foot apart on the back of the tank. The other pump is used for a close loop with two penductors one at each end of the tank.One penductor moves the water down the back the other one down the front of tank. The penductor and return mix with each other before going to the other end of the tank.I have found that this works well for my tank that has been running for many years. The penductors came from myreefcreations.

 

[cali_reef]

JB NY,

Do you think the wave box principle qualifies as flow requirement you are talking about? I see most of my SPS polyps waving when the box is on but they are nothing like the effect of a stream of water being flowed around the same SPS.

 

[JB NY]

JB NY,

Do you think the wave box principle qualifies as flow requirement you are talking about? I see most of my SPS polyps waving when the box is on but they are nothing like the effect of a stream of water being flowed around the same SPS.

I think that would work. I had seen the wave box at IMAC last year and I think the water movement it creates might be something that would help a lot of us.

RGibson, penductors are real nice for getting lots of current in one's tank. Still, be on the lookout for dead spots as the corals grow.

 

[RGibson]

Thank you Joe And i will be on the look out for dead spots. Penductors have work real well and thay only cost $25.00 each and come in black are only 3 7/8 in long.

 

[Member No. 1]

Someone was asking how to temper the flow of a MJ-1200 in a previous post (not sure who ATM), but if you look at the furthest right MJ-1200, I have a homemade eductor on one.
Here's a side view shot:

Now it doesn't get near the flow gain of a mixing eductor (a 5:1 ratio), but it does get 'some' extra movement. It was relatively simple to build as well, and only has 3 main parts. a 3/4" coupling, a 1/2" coupling, and a small section of 1/2" pipe. None of it is glued, and the small piece of pipe is fit to the volute of the MJ-1200 with a piece of 1/2" ID tubing (press fit inside the 1/2" pipe). It sucks microbbles in from approximately 1" to 1-1/2" away, so that leads me to believe that it's actually working, just not as efficiently as a mixing eductor on a high-pressure pump would. To get to the point, rather than a high-velocity blast coming out of the eductor, it's more of a gentle narrowly focused beam of water, which doesn't fan out as much as a powerhead without the eductor.
I'm still in the observation stages, but am about to construct another for the MJ-1200 that doesn't have the flow director on it... at least it was cheap to build, about 50 cents for the two couplings, and figure in some extra for 1/2" pipe and tubing if you don't have any laying around.


OK... the novel's done... [/B]

ZZM, could you please explain more on construction? Maybe an exploded view? These look interesting and simple. I like the way they look as compared to the big black units out there. If I build one, maybe I'll use black pvc. Great idea!!
TIA

 

[tgfrench]

My current layout on my 55. I didn't show the rio 800 i've got hidden behind my rock along the back wall.

 

[Ironman]

I have a six foot tank and the two Seios I just received do a really good job at displacing water. One is a 1500 and the other an 1100. I get the same random and strong current as witnessed above. I have them placed at opposite ends slightly pointing toward each other. My return also gives me about 600 gph.

My problem is that my lps are blowing all over the place.

Can you keep lps with sps in the same tank and both be happy?

 

[JB NY]

Sure, I do.

 

[bergzy]

My problem is that my lps are blowing all over the place.

Can you keep lps with sps in the same tank and both be happy?

after a little trial and error,

what i did was put most of my sps higher up...i then directed my seios (that are opposiste ends of the tank, along with my 5 mj 1200's on a wave maker set on the most aggressove pulse pattern) into each other at the level of the sps'. the lps' are lower (as i feel they should be) in the tank, and get the more moderate gentle current they like by showing it as opening up a lot.

i cant seem to post a pic of my current set up right now...beats me why i have been having so many computer problems lately! yeesh!

 

[sonofgaladriel]

Help with my new cube flow please.
4'x4'x2', SPS dominant reef. Rockscape will be kept low (no rockscape higher than 12" or so) across the front 3/4 and will build up against the back wall, covering the overflow box. Viewable from three sides. Completely open top, no bracing (1" acrylic ). I will run 4 closed loop returns from the back pane and am considering running 4 more through the bottom of the tank. Since its an open top, I don't want any plumbing exposed over the top, so the need to go through the bottom. The two returns from the sump will have eductors on each one.
Question 1: Should I put all 4 of my bottom (floor) closed loop returns near the front viewing pane and point them back towards the opposite 4 comming out of the back pane? I will angle each of them slightly. Or should I mix them up and put 2 near the front pane and one on each side pane facing inwards?
Question 2: Pumps. Should I get a Sequence Hammerhead to run the closed loop and use my Sequence Dart to run the sump return? Or should I continue to use my GenX 35 (995 gph) to run my sump return and run two Sequence Darts on two seperate closed loops? I was thinking of using 2 4-way oceansmotions, one on each Dart to really provide alot of random flow patterns. I may just go with 1 8-way on a Hammerhead for cost efficiency.
I'm also trying to be energy conscious here and wanting to go with lower wattage pumps. Sequence seems to be the best of both worlds, flow vs wattage consumption.
Question 3: With this much flow, is there any way I can have a shallow sand bed without it flowing all over the place? I know the benefits of the bare bottom, but I'm just not sure I like the look.
Thanks for the advice/suggestions/opinions/experiences!