Let's talk about water quality in an SPS tank.

[Big E]

As for skimming/overskimming, stocking ... so much is `dependent on situation'. I really learn whenever Joe, or Mojo, or 64Ivy, or some of those I look to for inspiration describe their system ... yet size-wise, equipment-wise ... there's only so much I can `follow their regime' IMO.

Lol......you adjust to your size tank ect. By gameplan or regime I'm talking about guys like Gregt or Bomber........pretty specific & theres a plan to follow. You adjust it to your system.

As much as Garf gets bashed on RC they have a plan that works for them, another example.

It's when people deviate form the plan that it fails.......but I guess that's human nature to try to tweek.


It's not about following someone elses tank setup by using the same exact brand skimmer.......lol........it's about following a plan.

The huge number of variables is why you need a starting point for success......then adjust to your system over time. It's about reducing variables not adding to them.

I guess I'm not gettin my point across so I'll just close it out here & then next week I'll see a thread about a problem with all the exact parameters posted on the original thread will be in line yet the reefer is exasperated over his problem.

 

[MiddletonMark]

I guess I'm not gettin my point across so I'll just close it out here & then next week I'll see a thread about a problem with all the exact parameters posted on the original thread will be in line yet the reefer is exasperated over his problem.

No, I think you are explaining ok ... but let me explain where I'm coming from.

I had the pleasure to meet JB NY at IMAC, and we talked about a lot of things.

One such thing ... he has success with Ozone ... which benefits his tank. After talking to him, it was very hard not to be thinking `if I want a comparable tank, I better use Ozone; that's the problem with my tank!'. But yet I doubt he'd say that - suggesting that your idea is great ... if wasn't for idiots like me focusing on the equipment we don't have, the neato gadget ... and not realizing if I clean my skimmer more regularly, feed more/less/different ... I can get the same parameters and great tank.

I guess that's where I lie .. that it seems like there are multiple ways to get to the end result; some more useful in different situations, some potentially mis-applied to bad effect.

Anyway, I've been rambling too much on this thread ... time to shut up and learn

 

[JB NY]

I'm not sure I can tell you exactly how to achieve success. Mainly because your tank isn't my tank.

A 30 gallon SPS tank will need to be maintained different than my 280 gallon system.

A lot of what I do, is done to fit my schedule, living habits and what not. I can't tell you exactly what to do, because every tank is a little different. You might keep more fish than I, or less. You might have some softies in the tank, or maybe it's a BB tank (I have a DSB).

Actually I was hoping that more people who have strong SPS tanks with good coloration would jump in and offer their thoughts as well.

But, I really believe if all your levels are what we agreed to above and you can go days without cleaning the glass, water quality is not going to be your problem when trying to keep SPS.

But here is what I do to keep my water quality up.

Skimming. I'm not a fan of the light colored skimmate. I pull out a good 6-8 oz of dark (black coffee colored) skimmate a day. I clean my skimmer out every two weeks. I seem to get better performance out of my skimmer after about 3-4 days after cleaning, so I let it go two weeks between cleanings.

Water changes.
20-25% every two weeks. or 10% every week. Shipon and remove as much detritus as you can from the sump or any place else you can during the water change.

Water clarity.
Carbon.
I run 1 cup of carbon for every 100 gallons of water. I used to run it for a few days once a week. I now change it out every week, so I'm running it continually.
Ozone.
I run ozone 4 hours a day at a ratio of about 0.2mg per gallon. So I run my 200mg red sea ozone generator at 30% when running.

PO4 control
I run rowaphos/phosban, 500ml in a reserve flow chamber. I change it out every 4-6 months. I've been doing this for about 16 months.

I run 500ml of rowaphos/phosban as a third chamber of my calcium reactor and change this out whenever I change out the reactor media.

I dose kalk to help with pH and calcium levels.

I have a 55 gallon refugium that has chaetomorpha for nutrient export. I run it on a RDS to help stabilize pH. The tank is bare bottom and I siphon out any detritus during my water changes.

I have 280 lbs of live rock and a 4.5" DSB in the main tank to take care of any nitrates. I blow off my rock work with a turkey baster once a week to get any detritus into suspension.

Depending on your bioload and how heavily you feed. You would need to do more or less water changes IMO. Also if you just can't keep the nitrates down, chances are you have too may fish.

How's that Ed?

 

[Big E]

Awesome Joe......that's what I'm talkin' about.

 

[reefcam]

How long can you go without cleaning the front of your glass before you can notice it being dirty? I used to only be able to go 3-4 days and then it really needed to be cleaned. Since last August (10 months ago) I got more aggressive on my water quality, and in the past 8 months or so I can easily go 7 days without cleaning my glass and you can hardly even notice any buildup on the glass when I do clean it, which is now once a week.

But wouldn't amount of lighting also cause an accelerated growth in algae? I have two tanks that are plumb together and my my tank with 4 x 400W MH and 6 x 6ft VHO bulbs gets a small dusting of algae on the glass every 2 - 3 days and my little boys tank that has only 2 x 36PC (and gets water from the main tanks overflow) only needs cleaning every 10 days.

But I clean the glass every day or two just to prevent coralline algae from building up.

Just my thought.

As far as small cyano patches, I get them where water flow is very low in certain spots. Typically readjusting my flow will remove the patches from occuring again.

BTW, I use Salifert test kits, but have heard there's a new test kit from Merc (?) from Steve Weast, that will give a better accuracy.

 

[reefcam]

No, I think you are explaining ok ... but let me explain where I'm coming from.

I had the pleasure to meet JB NY at IMAC, and we talked about a lot of things.

One such thing ... he has success with Ozone ... which benefits his tank. After talking to him, it was very hard not to be thinking `if I want a comparable tank, I better use Ozone; that's the problem with my tank!'. But yet I doubt he'd say that - suggesting that your idea is great ... if wasn't for idiots like me focusing on the equipment we don't have, the neato gadget ... and not realizing if I clean my skimmer more regularly, feed more/less/different ... I can get the same parameters and great tank.

Joe, I was wondering if you see any difference in tank water quality if you stop using Ozone?

Jim

 

[John R]

You're tank looks great. I have one thing to ask though (JB NY). Most refugia based tanks I've seen (almost all of them), when looking at them length-wise, seem to have a cloudy look to them. As evidenced in your photo, you don't have this "problem". If you are running a refugium, how are you avoiding this?

Do you think this (having a refugium) can contribute to water quality issues? Both good and bad?

John R.

 

[JB NY]

But wouldn't amount of lighting also cause an accelerated growth in algae? I have two tanks that are plumb together and my my tank with 4 x 400W MH and 6 x 6ft VHO bulbs gets a small dusting of algae on the glass every 2 - 3 days and my little boys tank that has only 2 x 36PC (and gets water from the main tanks overflow) only needs cleaning every 10 days.

I run 3 x 250 watt MH and 3 x 140 watt VHO. 9 hrs for MH and 13 for VHO. I clean once a week. I'll take a picture of my refugium that I haven't cleaned the glass for at least 6 weeks, it's almost crystal clear as well, but I'm only running 1 x 96 watt 6500K PC lamp over it.

Truthfully, I used to think people were making it up about being able to go 5-7 days with out cleaning the glass.

Joe, I was wondering if you see any difference in tank water quality if you stop using Ozone?


I bet I would. But more on the lines of less clarity from my water.

 

[reefcam]

I was curious on the use of Ozone as I've seen good success with them and see that you have a great looking tank.

Ozone has always been a contraversy for in home and I'm also concern as well.

Do you run carbon on your tank? If so how often and long?

-------------

I run my MH for 9 hrs and VHO for 12 hrs and during the summer, the tank gets the evening Sun hitting it directly. I notice the corals really like it when the sun hits the tank in the evening.
(Yes we get sun in Oregon... sheshh ).

 

[JB NY]

You're tank looks great. I have one thing to ask though (JB NY). Most refugia based tanks I've seen (almost all of them), when looking at them length-wise, seem to have a cloudy look to them. As evidenced in your photo, you don't have this "problem". If you are running a refugium, how are you avoiding this?

Do you think this (having a refugium) can contribute to water quality issues? Both good and bad?

John R.

I only have Chaetomorpha in my refugium. In February I re-did my plumbing as well as my refugium. I ripped out all the caulerpa and went with only chaetomorpha. But even when I did have caulerpa in the tank I did not have any clouding of the tank, unless the caulerpa went sexual on me

I belive that a well thought out refugium can help tremendously with water quality. But I am now a firm believer in not putting any caulerpa in a tank, esp an SPS tank as the toxins produced by caulerpa can been detrimental to Acroporids. Also, the potential to go sexual, IMO, can sometimes cause more harm than good. Macro algae such as Chaetomorpha and Gracilaria are much better substitutes that will cause no harm to the tank.

Also, I use my refugium for nutrient export only. I don't try and cultivate pods or anything (although there are tons of them in there anyway) in it, just macro algae for nutrient export. I also believe in lots of flow in the refugium, and allowing the top layer of water in the refugium to flow to the overflow.

 

[Markk96]

A 30 gallon SPS tank will need to be maintained different than my 280 gallon system.

Joe you hit the nail on the head with this statement.

All tanks are not created equal.

There are many factors in having a great tank and from reading several threads about various products it seems everyone is looking for the quick fix and fast results.

I will stick with what works for me and then try new things when I think it is the best to do so.

FWIW
Mark

 

[JB NY]

I'll take a picture of my refugium that I haven't cleaned the glass for at least 6 weeks, it's almost crystal clear as well, but I'm only running 1 x 96 watt 6500K PC lamp over it.

It's pretty clean. Much better than my old refugium used to be.

 

[greenfroggiespawn]

umm sorry to post a newbie question, but is there a site or links to good reading on sps, and just a beginners place for sps??
thanks...

i want to read up more on bleeching, and what not.. and how to bring the color out in sps

 

[reef10]

One problem that I would like to see discussed is organic toxins. I run a combined softie and sps tank. The soft coral do produce some chemical warfare, I guess, but there are no tests that can determine the extent of the problem. I do run carbon some but I do not see a difference in water clarity. Also this has no smoking gun (i.e. You have witnessed x in your tank so therefore you have organic toxins.) What is everybody's opinion on this aspect? I believe that tons of stuff out there produce chemicals not just soft coral I chose them as an example because I believe it to be common knowlage that they present a potential problem. Also does skimming or ozone take care of this problem? Yes to some extent? Do they break down on their own after a time?? I don't know.

 

[64Ivy]

Due to travels I'm joining this one late so most everything I'd have to say has already been said. Therefore, I'm just going to reinterate the stablity point; imo, it is THE most important factor in successful reeftank maintenance. And I mean, stability of just about everything down to even the lighting! Considering these organisms come from perhaps one of the more stable ecosystems on the planet, I'd think they'd become pretty set in their ways over the eons. Just the fact that they survive at all in our tanks while we're dosing this, experimenting with that, raising this, lowering that, and testing the other, is a testiment to their adaptability. It's GOT to stress them though. I mean, we've all read the "Help! I accidentally dumped some*****in the tank" threads. Heck, we've probably STARTED a few of them. Well I'd bet if they could talk, our corals would tell us it wouldn't have happened if we hadn't been noodling around in the first place. My advice; set the proper parameters, ignore the fads, and enjoy your tank...from the outside as much as possible.

 

[Konadog]

My advice; set the proper parameters, ignore the fads, and enjoy your tank...from the outside as much as possible.

Some of the best advice I think I have heard in a long time.

 

[drtango]

The glass cleaning observation is a real epiphany!

I was cleaning mine daily, and removing a quart of chaeto from my refugium about every two weeks during what I think was the meltdown of my sandbed. The "pace" of my glass cleaning picked up very obviously over the past year or so, year 4 of the sandbed. I've become a Starboard convert, and now I clean the glass weekly, mostly because I feel I should, and the Chaeto in the 'fuge has long since died.

For those who want to maintain a sandbed, perhaps needing to clean the glass more frequently than every 4-5 days means time to get a "fresh" sandbed!!

Just an observation, no attempt here to start another DSB debate!! I'm also a big fan of ozone.

John

 

[alanseah]

JB NY,

I dont get it.. how come you dont have any filter sock... then how r u going to filter away those particular in your tank..??

currently in my tank now I'm facing some micro bubble that is product from my in sump skimmer.. which I'm at a lost of how to remove the bubble be4 it reach my return pump..

also I have quite an amount of small particular flying around in my tank...

I'm going to add one more tunze stream 6100 into my tank to increase the turn over rate.. hope with high turn over rate will be able to help with my current sitituation..

 

[G-money]

alanseah,

How big is your sump?
If you have a sump that is somewhat long (say 30" or longer is best), you can buy some sheet plexiglass and make some baffles for it. I have nearly 2000 GPH going through the overflow on my 120 to a 40 gallon long sump (48"). With a 5 baffle arrangement, I have no microbubbles getting back to the tank (Beckett skimmer and all).

The middle section is about 24" long and due to the way the baffles make the water flow, the section serves quite well as a settling cmopartment - even with all that flow. If you're interested, I could snap a pic.

 

[1234]

g-money

I'd be interested in that pic of your sump - thanks