Bax
Premium Member
Hmmm ... Good to know!
FWIW, I did niether during my treatments. I did dip like crazy checking for signs of the little bastages
Levamisole In-Tank Treatment for AEFW
- Thread starter James404
- Start date
Hmmm ... Good to know!
FWIW, I did niether during my treatments. I did dip like crazy checking for signs of the little bastages
jcolletteiii
New member
So here's the four hour update using Prohibit 46.8g. per 52g. powdered product at a dosage of 5.5 grams per 300 gal. (= 0.7g for my 36 gal. tank).
I watched carefully for the first half hour to see if there were any aefw releasing from their hosts. I saw none. The usual spaghetti worms flying around stunned, and the occasional suffering amphipod, but no apparent flatties. I dipped my corals in the Vermisole product last week at a much higher dosage, and the aefw did not release from the corals with that dip either, instead requiring vigorous turkey blasting to dislodge. In one case, there were 6 LIVE aefw on one acro after a half hour dip in the Vermisol at at 0.1g per 1 gallon of treatment water - that is nearly 7x the dosage of 5g. per 300 gal (= 0.016g. per gallon), so I didn't want to dip for that long a time.
So, getting back to today - I pulled two colonies to check - the acro that had the 6 aefw on it last week, and obviously one of their favorite diners. Blasted it to holy hell - only 3 tiny little snails were on the piece - probably on the LR it is encrusting. Tried the valida as well - nothing there either. I checked the tank about every 30 miniutes during treatment and saw nothing in the watercolumn either. Will leave it alone for another hour or so, then turn the skimmer and reactor back on. So, didn't see a single aefw. Does this mean the treatment killed any of them? Did a good in-tank basting of all of my colonies as well, didn't see anything. So it's possible. It's also possible that that they were knocked out, and that turning my skimmer and carbon back online will revive them once again.
This week I will be looking carefully at the acro's skin to see if I notice any fresh lesions. Will do another treatment in another week or so, bumping the dosage up to 6g. per 300g. and see how that one plays out.
I watched carefully for the first half hour to see if there were any aefw releasing from their hosts. I saw none. The usual spaghetti worms flying around stunned, and the occasional suffering amphipod, but no apparent flatties. I dipped my corals in the Vermisole product last week at a much higher dosage, and the aefw did not release from the corals with that dip either, instead requiring vigorous turkey blasting to dislodge. In one case, there were 6 LIVE aefw on one acro after a half hour dip in the Vermisol at at 0.1g per 1 gallon of treatment water - that is nearly 7x the dosage of 5g. per 300 gal (= 0.016g. per gallon), so I didn't want to dip for that long a time.
So, getting back to today - I pulled two colonies to check - the acro that had the 6 aefw on it last week, and obviously one of their favorite diners. Blasted it to holy hell - only 3 tiny little snails were on the piece - probably on the LR it is encrusting. Tried the valida as well - nothing there either. I checked the tank about every 30 miniutes during treatment and saw nothing in the watercolumn either. Will leave it alone for another hour or so, then turn the skimmer and reactor back on. So, didn't see a single aefw. Does this mean the treatment killed any of them? Did a good in-tank basting of all of my colonies as well, didn't see anything. So it's possible. It's also possible that that they were knocked out, and that turning my skimmer and carbon back online will revive them once again.
This week I will be looking carefully at the acro's skin to see if I notice any fresh lesions. Will do another treatment in another week or so, bumping the dosage up to 6g. per 300g. and see how that one plays out.
joeyvu
New member
that is very good news, jcolletteiii
is this your very first in-tank dose? My third dose with levi, i did not see any pods nor worms flying since they are all dead on the first dose....I will up my dose on fourth and fifth treatment, making sure they are all dead (aefw)...So far my millies pe extends very good, not like before....
Other thing, any body see their sand become sticky after treatment?
is this your very first in-tank dose? My third dose with levi, i did not see any pods nor worms flying since they are all dead on the first dose....I will up my dose on fourth and fifth treatment, making sure they are all dead (aefw)...So far my millies pe extends very good, not like before....
Other thing, any body see their sand become sticky after treatment?
jcolletteiii
New member
Joeyvu, no, this is my third in tank treatment, but the previous two were with Vermisol, which is useless IMO. The dip used Vermisol as well - it even seemed uneffective at 7x the recommended dosage.
Strangely, the aefw are not after my prostratas, something that I find odd because they're very closely related to millis. They like the valida, which I expected, but they also go after a teal green stag that I have no idea what species it is. It's a vivid green-blue when it's not struggling, has small brown polyps with no long central tentacle like a milli or prostrata, and the corallites are also quite small, or low relief - right now it's kind of a dull olive green because it's been ****ed off.
Strangely, the aefw are not after my prostratas, something that I find odd because they're very closely related to millis. They like the valida, which I expected, but they also go after a teal green stag that I have no idea what species it is. It's a vivid green-blue when it's not struggling, has small brown polyps with no long central tentacle like a milli or prostrata, and the corallites are also quite small, or low relief - right now it's kind of a dull olive green because it's been ****ed off.
Has anyone found the "dead" dosage for the worms yet?
I'm about to pull the trigger on some PROHIBIT, and will do the testing if needed. But I'd prefer to have someone that has it already to do it if they can.
I am currently testing the Bayer Insecticide as a dip, which seems to work well at 10ml per 1/2 cup for 5 minutes.
IF the levamisole doesn't work out, I'll be dipping with the Bayer. That has two problems associated with it. I have to tear down my display, which has several three-four year old colonies in it, and the costs associated with dipping with the Bayer are pretty pricey. It would run me about $20 per dip for about 10-15 dips.
Anyways, back to my thoughts on the PROHIBIT:
I think if the tank is handling things well, I'd shoot for a ten-twelve week dip process. That would equal, at a minimum, ten dips six days apart. It sounds like the first dip should be at the 5/300 ratio, and then examination to see how everything did.
After that, a ramp up of .5g/300Gal would probably be a good idea up to the point where you feel comfortable with coral/fish health.
I, personally, would leave the skimmer running, but pull the airline out so it is just running water. Same with calcium reactors. Leave them running. We are pretty certain that these things can swim, so I'd hate to see some of them crawling through your system and get into a skimmer or reactor only to exit it at a later date and reinfect coral. All of this is conjecture at best, but these are the things I think about late at night when I cry myself to sleep not wanting to tear my tank apart.
Just my two cents. Pretty sure I'm going to go order some PROHIBIT right now. If nothing else, I'll do some testing on flatworms with it. I did notice the exact same "not really dead" effect yesterday testing a couple flatworms with the Bayer insecticide. After replenishing the test water with new tank water, the flatworm revived itself. It was definitely in pain, but was for sure still alive.
I'm about to pull the trigger on some PROHIBIT, and will do the testing if needed. But I'd prefer to have someone that has it already to do it if they can.
I am currently testing the Bayer Insecticide as a dip, which seems to work well at 10ml per 1/2 cup for 5 minutes.
IF the levamisole doesn't work out, I'll be dipping with the Bayer. That has two problems associated with it. I have to tear down my display, which has several three-four year old colonies in it, and the costs associated with dipping with the Bayer are pretty pricey. It would run me about $20 per dip for about 10-15 dips.
Anyways, back to my thoughts on the PROHIBIT:
I think if the tank is handling things well, I'd shoot for a ten-twelve week dip process. That would equal, at a minimum, ten dips six days apart. It sounds like the first dip should be at the 5/300 ratio, and then examination to see how everything did.
After that, a ramp up of .5g/300Gal would probably be a good idea up to the point where you feel comfortable with coral/fish health.
I, personally, would leave the skimmer running, but pull the airline out so it is just running water. Same with calcium reactors. Leave them running. We are pretty certain that these things can swim, so I'd hate to see some of them crawling through your system and get into a skimmer or reactor only to exit it at a later date and reinfect coral. All of this is conjecture at best, but these are the things I think about late at night when I cry myself to sleep not wanting to tear my tank apart.
Just my two cents. Pretty sure I'm going to go order some PROHIBIT right now. If nothing else, I'll do some testing on flatworms with it. I did notice the exact same "not really dead" effect yesterday testing a couple flatworms with the Bayer insecticide. After replenishing the test water with new tank water, the flatworm revived itself. It was definitely in pain, but was for sure still alive.
Ok - just bought some PROHIBIT from American Livestock.
Link: https://www.americanlivestock.com/p-789596-prohibit-soluble-drench-powder.aspx
I also found a coupon for $5 off your first order, which put my total at $20.75 shipped.
Coupon code is: ADEF11
That should help everyone save a couple bucks that hasn't ordered it yet. I have no idea when it expires, though.
Link: https://www.americanlivestock.com/p-789596-prohibit-soluble-drench-powder.aspx
I also found a coupon for $5 off your first order, which put my total at $20.75 shipped.
Coupon code is: ADEF11
That should help everyone save a couple bucks that hasn't ordered it yet. I have no idea when it expires, though.
Bax
Premium Member
flamron
I'd agree with everything you stated for your use of PROHIBIT. I don't know about the Bayer dip personally as I've only read a few posts on it.
As a general comment, & to underscore the protocol you proposed, starting with a 5grm/300gal dose is important. See how the system reacts, and inspect for the AEFW impact. Ratcheting the dose up by 0.5 grm per treatment is a great way to go. Always observing the system, fish and corals for stress and using that observation to level off the dose or back off the dose. Six treatments 5-7 days apart at a minimum! Always shut down the air to the skimmer but keep all wetted pars of the system flowing. Use of bottom siphoning, turkey basting, WCs, GAC change out and sock/pad change out is system dependant.
These are definitely some of the finer points honed by this thread.
Another important point proved out here ...
All systems are different! Your results may vary! So observe and react, don't just treat with a recipie!
I'd agree with everything you stated for your use of PROHIBIT. I don't know about the Bayer dip personally as I've only read a few posts on it.
As a general comment, & to underscore the protocol you proposed, starting with a 5grm/300gal dose is important. See how the system reacts, and inspect for the AEFW impact. Ratcheting the dose up by 0.5 grm per treatment is a great way to go. Always observing the system, fish and corals for stress and using that observation to level off the dose or back off the dose. Six treatments 5-7 days apart at a minimum! Always shut down the air to the skimmer but keep all wetted pars of the system flowing. Use of bottom siphoning, turkey basting, WCs, GAC change out and sock/pad change out is system dependant.
These are definitely some of the finer points honed by this thread.
Another important point proved out here ...
All systems are different! Your results may vary! So observe and react, don't just treat with a recipie!
Bayer kills everything, and puts minimal stress on the coral. The corals I have tested with it don't even lose their color. They slime a bit, but PE is back within an hour.
I intend to use it as my preventative dip for my QT.
One other thing I read that interested me is the theory of different "versions" of AEFW. I have the version that don't kill everything quickly, as I've only lost two frags since I've known about them - a hyacinth (sp?) and a plana. Both of those are sensitive corals for me - so that is why I believe that I have the lesser evil (but still resilient) flatworm.
I baste maybe once a week or once every two weeks. Currently they are only on a tricolor and a large colony of tyree sky blue millepora. I've basted other coral and have never seen them fly off. I'm sure they are there, but those two are the main affected corals. I have a sunset Mille that shows little to no damage, but it has two acro crabs living in it - so perhaps they are keeping them at bay along with my melenarus wrasse?
Once I get the PROHIBIT in, I will for sure do some tests on the flatworms. The problem I have is that I am not seeing that many right now (had them for six months), and any that get blown off are quickly eaten by the wrasse or my clowns. I do get lucky and catch a couple once in a while, though, so I will just hold off on basting until I get the levamisole in. Hopefully they ship quickly.
I intend to use it as my preventative dip for my QT.
One other thing I read that interested me is the theory of different "versions" of AEFW. I have the version that don't kill everything quickly, as I've only lost two frags since I've known about them - a hyacinth (sp?) and a plana. Both of those are sensitive corals for me - so that is why I believe that I have the lesser evil (but still resilient) flatworm.
I baste maybe once a week or once every two weeks. Currently they are only on a tricolor and a large colony of tyree sky blue millepora. I've basted other coral and have never seen them fly off. I'm sure they are there, but those two are the main affected corals. I have a sunset Mille that shows little to no damage, but it has two acro crabs living in it - so perhaps they are keeping them at bay along with my melenarus wrasse?
Once I get the PROHIBIT in, I will for sure do some tests on the flatworms. The problem I have is that I am not seeing that many right now (had them for six months), and any that get blown off are quickly eaten by the wrasse or my clowns. I do get lucky and catch a couple once in a while, though, so I will just hold off on basting until I get the levamisole in. Hopefully they ship quickly.
I believe we have the same ones... Not super aggressive but persistent as hell. I'm looking forward to hearing your results.
Just as an update to all those who read my post that I found live adults after treatment, I was able to catch a few and put them into my remaining levamisole treatment.. They literaly turned to mush! it did not stun them, it did not knock them out... It killed them.. Finding the proper strength to treat is key... great advice Bax on bumping dosage at .5 pertreatment and backing off if necessary.
Flamron just a side note, I wouldn't dip with the bayer product if you are concerned with only AEFW, revive or coralRX will work just as well. From what I have seen the only advantage to using bayer is that it could kill red bugs.
I have used Bayer and it kills aefw melts them like butter only disadvantage is you cannot use it directly in the display.
I have used Bayer and it kills aefw melts them like butter only disadvantage is you cannot use it directly in the display.
An FYI on the revive - this is what I used before I had AEFW to dip literally every coral that went into my system. I didn't feel like a QT was important then, so I dipped for about 12 hours with interceptor and revive, and then inspected each coral religiously. There is a chance that I missed eggs, but my bet is that the 5 minute dip I did in Revive didn't kill the worms, only knocked them out, and they were literally "revived" when I put the piece back into my tank.
With Bayer, it seems the coral can handle the "dead on the spot" dosage - which is why I'll be using it for all coral that are purchased after I get through this. And of course this will be done in my QT tank. I'll likely dip every six days for four-six weeks before intro to my display or frag tank.
I just ordered this one:
http://www.amazon.com/Digital-Jewel...mstone/dp/B001OZ6UMW/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top
http://www.amazon.com/Digital-Jewel...mstone/dp/B001OZ6UMW/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top
Bayer also kills the AEFW eggs to. I have coral RX and used bayer to me bayer is more effective kill all AEFW and the egg. The eggs fall off and melts to.
James404
I <3 Acros
Yes I admit it's been a while since I looked at the bayer thread but I never saw any evidence of it killing the eggs.
I can tell you for a fact that revive does kill the worms in a dip, I dose 2 capfuls to a gallon, worms fall off within 2-3 minutes usually and begin to shrivel, then they die not long after.
I can tell you for a fact that revive does kill the worms in a dip, I dose 2 capfuls to a gallon, worms fall off within 2-3 minutes usually and begin to shrivel, then they die not long after.
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