LFS Has New FAST Acclimation Process
- Thread starter leebca
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No I do not, I donââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t work at a fish store. this is what I have learned from some one who does. That when they get their orders transshipped they float the bags to match temperature. These fish have been in the bags a long time usually there are a few dead in the bags and some just hanging on. They are more concerned about lowering the co2 levels and having the higher ph from their system cause an ammonia spike. When this happens the fish will die in the bags or buckets or die later in the sale tank or after purchase. I have seen these fish, they are shipped in enough water to cover their backs and thatââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s it. In this small volume of water you can see that they will be starving for oxygen and the water quality will be terrible. This is why they do it this way. I acclimate drip when I buy my fish because it is the ideal way to do it. These fish are in a big bag with oxygen along with plenty of clean oxygen rich water and have only been in the bag for 10 minutes to 2 hours tops depending on fish store. 
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Hi Lee,
I do indeed have some numbers for the discussion. I've recorded pH down to 7.4 and temps down to 68F in shipping bags. After floating for about an hour for temp (ideally in subdued lighting), the fish are removed from the shipping water and FW dipped. After FW dip they placed immediately into the system with pH of 8.2 to 8.4 and a temp of 78-80F. Fish going into a dedicated fish system are generally kept at slightly hyposaline conditions of around 1.020 (less is good, but freaks out the consumer too much), with bag salinity often been between 1.020 and 1.025 depending on the supplier. In any event, I've not had any problems from those differences in salinity. In cases where the fish have been obviously distressed in the bag upon arrival, my survival rates have drastically increased from the days of long drip acclimations.
I have recorded lower pH's and even temperatures, but in those cases most fish have already been dead or so close to it that they never survived more than a day or two after shipping, no matter what acclimation procedure has been used.
IMO the most important thing is how the fish are packed. Large bags and plenty of water and O2 along with use of ammonia binders. I've always had the best luck with animals coming from suppliers that are not shy with bag sizes and water volume. Might cost me a little more in shipping, but the animals have always done better than the ones from suppliers that use a shoe horn and Vaseline to get the critter in a bag and than spare the water to boot. In essence, you get what you pay for
Almost forgot, I touched on subdued lighting earlier in this post. I've definitely noticed that fish unpacked/acclimated under subdued lighting settle in much quicker and with less obvious stress than those unpacked/acclimated under bright lighting. IME that single, seemingly insignificant little detail can have more impact than a few points of pH, salinity or temperature can.
Terry,
I know that part of your article isn't out, but would you be willing to send me your list of references on the pH issue. Either by PM or email to billsreef@reefcentral.com
Much appreciated Bill.
When I am getting in fish from a shipper, I too am very conscientious about lighting. I first open the box in an almost dark room. Without disturbing the box contents (other than to remove any packing covering the tops of the bag(s)) I turn one room light on at a time (3 room lights) over a period of an hour.
When the light in the room matches the subdued light in the room with my QT, I then take the bags out of the box and let them lie in the open a few more minutes. Then I start the floating in the QT, in the QT room with no lighting (other than halides, see below).
The QT room also contains my main system refugium with halide lighting so although the room has no lights on in the process and at night, the halides are always on, across the room, shedding some light into the QT.
I too believe that lighting plays a significant role in the acclimation process (especially when fish are coming out a totally darkened box). I also try and use a dithering fish in the QT.
Thanks for the numbers, Bill! :thumbsup:
When I am getting in fish from a shipper, I too am very conscientious about lighting. I first open the box in an almost dark room. Without disturbing the box contents (other than to remove any packing covering the tops of the bag(s)) I turn one room light on at a time (3 room lights) over a period of an hour.
When the light in the room matches the subdued light in the room with my QT, I then take the bags out of the box and let them lie in the open a few more minutes. Then I start the floating in the QT, in the QT room with no lighting (other than halides, see below).
The QT room also contains my main system refugium with halide lighting so although the room has no lights on in the process and at night, the halides are always on, across the room, shedding some light into the QT.
I too believe that lighting plays a significant role in the acclimation process (especially when fish are coming out a totally darkened box). I also try and use a dithering fish in the QT.
Thanks for the numbers, Bill! :thumbsup:
Baobao,
If you are purchasing fish from a LFS, then your quarantine tank should be adjusted to match the pH and temperature of the tank at the LFS where they come from BEFORE you bring the fish home. You should NOT be adjusting the pH and temperature of the water in the shipment bag.
Below is a snippet from part one of my article. It should help you with pH differences:
ââ"šÂ¬Ã…"œYou can use phosphoric acid packaged by Aquarium Pharmaceuticalââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s as pH Downâ„¢ to reduce the pH. Muriatic acid , used in pool supplies, will also reduce the pH of water. Numerous products are available to buffer water and bring the pH up including Seachemââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s Marine Bufferâ„¢. Sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) will also raise the pH. When adjusting the pH be careful not to change it too much at one time or too quickly.ââ"šÂ¬Ã‚Â
Terry B
If you are purchasing fish from a LFS, then your quarantine tank should be adjusted to match the pH and temperature of the tank at the LFS where they come from BEFORE you bring the fish home. You should NOT be adjusting the pH and temperature of the water in the shipment bag.
Below is a snippet from part one of my article. It should help you with pH differences:
ââ"šÂ¬Ã…"œYou can use phosphoric acid packaged by Aquarium Pharmaceuticalââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s as pH Downâ„¢ to reduce the pH. Muriatic acid , used in pool supplies, will also reduce the pH of water. Numerous products are available to buffer water and bring the pH up including Seachemââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s Marine Bufferâ„¢. Sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) will also raise the pH. When adjusting the pH be careful not to change it too much at one time or too quickly.ââ"šÂ¬Ã‚Â
Terry B
Hi Lee,
I am sure that the small changes in temperature and salinity that I suggest sound impractical to most. I can only recommend what I see as being safe for the fish. I donââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t consider them to be acclimated until they have recovered from the stress of transport and handling, regained normal homeostasis again, have full immune function (severely suppressed by stress), are eating normally and have adjusted to their tankmates and the aquarist. Most people think they are done acclimating once the fish are in any tank.
The effects of stress on the health and longevity of the fish are my first concern. I think that you will agree that the survival rate at 30 days after capture and transport is poor. I believe this is due in large part to improper acclimation and handling, leading to Delayed Mortality Syndrome. The fish can appear to be fine for weeks and then die suddenly. Ignoring the needs of the fish because they are ââ"šÂ¬Ã…"œunrealisticââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ is why I think the fish die so often in the first month. The consequences of stress last far after the fish have been placed in a tank. The reality of it is that we cannot ignore things like lactic acid build up, high levels of stress hormones in the blood, blood pH drops, osmotic dysfunction and suppressed immune function and expect survival rates to improve much. Usually it comes down to ââ"šÂ¬Ã…"œits just too much trouble to do what is best for the fish.ââ"šÂ¬Ã‚Â
I cannot agree that it is better to get the pH to 8.3 quickly than to raise it slowly. Using the water parameters that Bill provided as an example, it would take three days to raise the pH from 7.4 to 8.3. If the water temperature is 68F, then it would take 3 to 5 days to raise it to 78F. I realize most wholesalers want to do what it quick, but that doesnââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t foster the best long-term survival for the fish.
Terry B
I am sure that the small changes in temperature and salinity that I suggest sound impractical to most. I can only recommend what I see as being safe for the fish. I donââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t consider them to be acclimated until they have recovered from the stress of transport and handling, regained normal homeostasis again, have full immune function (severely suppressed by stress), are eating normally and have adjusted to their tankmates and the aquarist. Most people think they are done acclimating once the fish are in any tank.
The effects of stress on the health and longevity of the fish are my first concern. I think that you will agree that the survival rate at 30 days after capture and transport is poor. I believe this is due in large part to improper acclimation and handling, leading to Delayed Mortality Syndrome. The fish can appear to be fine for weeks and then die suddenly. Ignoring the needs of the fish because they are ââ"šÂ¬Ã…"œunrealisticââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ is why I think the fish die so often in the first month. The consequences of stress last far after the fish have been placed in a tank. The reality of it is that we cannot ignore things like lactic acid build up, high levels of stress hormones in the blood, blood pH drops, osmotic dysfunction and suppressed immune function and expect survival rates to improve much. Usually it comes down to ââ"šÂ¬Ã…"œits just too much trouble to do what is best for the fish.ââ"šÂ¬Ã‚Â
I cannot agree that it is better to get the pH to 8.3 quickly than to raise it slowly. Using the water parameters that Bill provided as an example, it would take three days to raise the pH from 7.4 to 8.3. If the water temperature is 68F, then it would take 3 to 5 days to raise it to 78F. I realize most wholesalers want to do what it quick, but that doesnââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t foster the best long-term survival for the fish.
Terry B
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Hi Terry,
I thought you'd post the reasoning you did. It's the 'down the road' results that verify or refute the acclimation process used, and not the immediate survival rate. But, our hobby is fixated on 'the now.' With people's experience of less immediate fish loss it's hard to get them to do something they can't 'see' is needed. Surveys to determine the survival rate at 15 and 30 days after acclimation by each method would be useful information.
It's the
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As an aside, your quotation above. ..Muriatic acid is hydrochloric acid. This acid is far too strong for adjusting pH down in small quantities of water, IMHO. I wouldn't worry about the acetate molecule in such a need, and thus would recommend the use of distilled, pure vinegar (acetic acid) which is available at most grocery stores.
Live long and prosper!
I thought you'd post the reasoning you did. It's the 'down the road' results that verify or refute the acclimation process used, and not the immediate survival rate. But, our hobby is fixated on 'the now.' With people's experience of less immediate fish loss it's hard to get them to do something they can't 'see' is needed. Surveys to determine the survival rate at 15 and 30 days after acclimation by each method would be useful information.
It's the
where the snag lies. We need to move from the "I believe" to the data which links the two.
-------
As an aside, your quotation above. ..Muriatic acid is hydrochloric acid. This acid is far too strong for adjusting pH down in small quantities of water, IMHO. I wouldn't worry about the acetate molecule in such a need, and thus would recommend the use of distilled, pure vinegar (acetic acid) which is available at most grocery stores.
Live long and prosper!
Terry,
Sorry, I think I'm not being clear. Let me try an example. I recently received fish that were in very low PH ~ 7.4. Ok, let's say I've matched the PH, temperature of QT, and dropped bagged fish into this tank.
How do I prevent PH from increasing quickly? And further, what do you mean by too quick? The problem is that once I start aerating the tank, the PH increases and it is usually around 8 within half a day.
Would I need to monitor the PH and add muratic acid to lower the PH periodically?
Sorry, I think I'm not being clear. Let me try an example. I recently received fish that were in very low PH ~ 7.4. Ok, let's say I've matched the PH, temperature of QT, and dropped bagged fish into this tank.
How do I prevent PH from increasing quickly? And further, what do you mean by too quick? The problem is that once I start aerating the tank, the PH increases and it is usually around 8 within half a day.
Would I need to monitor the PH and add muratic acid to lower the PH periodically?
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