hahnmeister
In Memoriam
SE vs. DE?
Lighting Website Updates
- Thread starter Sanjay
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northbay-reefer
Active member
OK nevermind, I think I got it firgured out ... they were both SE though
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hahnmeister
In Memoriam
Ive never thought much of catalina bulbs... poor QC in the past.
As for the Milwaukee SM700, its a lux meter, not a PAR meter...
http://www.milwaukeetesters.com/english/products/economy_portable_meters/SM700.html
For reefing we want to use PAR meters, or Quantum meters... not Lux meters. You can get lux meters for much less than $100 as well.
fishnugget
Active member
garbage
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
the apogee unit I think.
hahnmeister
In Memoriam
Yep, $280 is the cheapest buy-in I know of, $318 for the one I bought. Even at that, I consider it a good investment. The amount of insight you will gain, and ability to get exact readings from bulbs has easily saved me that money. After having used one for a while now, I consider it just as important of a tool for the reef as a hydrometer. You need to keep track of the salinity in the reef, and be exact, no? If your salinity goes outside the 1.020-1.026 norm, you could have serious problems. Well, knowing the amount of photons in the water is just as important really.
It allows me to set up my bulbs/reflectors ideally, and know when its REALLY time to change my bulbs (not just a guess like most reefers). When changing bulbs, I can use the meter to acclimate the tank to the new bulb's output by raising the bulb/using mesh, etc and matching the true outputs. When I buy corals, clams, etc... I can take a reading from the tank they came from, right where that coral came from, and match it in my tank. I take 'mapped' charts of other's tanks, like this...
And discover that even though the owner of the above tank has placed the highest-light corals at the top of the tank, that they are getting less light than the ones at mid-level because the reflectors arent distributing as much light to the top back of the tank as the middle. Ah ha! Thats why they arent growing/looking good! Time to adjust the reflectors!
I can tailor lighting to be just the right amount for a tank with proper reflector use and placement. I can make sure that the top of the tank gets 400-500 readings, the middle gets 250-350, and the bottom gets 100-200... and be SURE of it. If my corals start to not look so good, I know if lighting is the reason or not.
You would be shocked how so many seemingly unimportant things can change the light output or distribution. One coral only inches from another might get a 100-200 micromol/m^2*s drop in intensity that wouldnt be visible otherwise.
It allows me to set up my bulbs/reflectors ideally, and know when its REALLY time to change my bulbs (not just a guess like most reefers). When changing bulbs, I can use the meter to acclimate the tank to the new bulb's output by raising the bulb/using mesh, etc and matching the true outputs. When I buy corals, clams, etc... I can take a reading from the tank they came from, right where that coral came from, and match it in my tank. I take 'mapped' charts of other's tanks, like this...
And discover that even though the owner of the above tank has placed the highest-light corals at the top of the tank, that they are getting less light than the ones at mid-level because the reflectors arent distributing as much light to the top back of the tank as the middle. Ah ha! Thats why they arent growing/looking good! Time to adjust the reflectors!
I can tailor lighting to be just the right amount for a tank with proper reflector use and placement. I can make sure that the top of the tank gets 400-500 readings, the middle gets 250-350, and the bottom gets 100-200... and be SURE of it. If my corals start to not look so good, I know if lighting is the reason or not.
You would be shocked how so many seemingly unimportant things can change the light output or distribution. One coral only inches from another might get a 100-200 micromol/m^2*s drop in intensity that wouldnt be visible otherwise.
TropTrea
New member
Well I will definatly agree that par meters are much more valuable than a meter that simply reads lumens.
However in the ideal world neither is anything close to a meter that will give you the real spectrum of light and tell you which frequencies are lacking and which are giving you enough light.
If you just trying to get the PAR value up there than 5,500K, 6,500K and some 10,000K bulbs would be all you need. However chances are these would not give you enough short wave lenght light wich some corals need.
Idealy one would get a set up like Sanjay uses when he evaluates his bulbs. However for the average reefer I think this becomes cost prohibitive. I'd almost bet that Sanjays equipment costs several time what that $318 meter costs.
Dennis
However in the ideal world neither is anything close to a meter that will give you the real spectrum of light and tell you which frequencies are lacking and which are giving you enough light.
If you just trying to get the PAR value up there than 5,500K, 6,500K and some 10,000K bulbs would be all you need. However chances are these would not give you enough short wave lenght light wich some corals need.
Idealy one would get a set up like Sanjay uses when he evaluates his bulbs. However for the average reefer I think this becomes cost prohibitive. I'd almost bet that Sanjays equipment costs several time what that $318 meter costs.
Dennis
hahnmeister
In Memoriam
The spectrum isnt as important as PAR though. I used to think otherwise, but as it turns out, the PUR of most bulbs tends to follow the same ratio as the amount of PAR. Simply put, the spectrum could matter less. As it turns out, look at the spectral graphs... a 6500K has more actinic in its output than any other bulb (maybe one or two exceptions, not sure, but rare if that), even a 20,000K... you just dont see it because of all the warmer spectrums. A 10,000K is pretty similar. Look at Sanjay's setup... all 10,000Ks, and plenty of color. There is loads of blue and actinic in that output. 'Supplimenting' bulbs is pretty much for our own visual tastes. If anything, I would suggest that some bluer bulbs like 14,000K pheonix and 20,000Ks which can sometimes get monochromatic looking need supplimentation... with 6500K bulbs!!! From the corals POV, this scenario would be more relevant than supplimenting 10,000Ks with blue or actinic bulbs. But as it turns out, the PAR is the most important characteristic. Sure, some corals might pigment up more under one spectrum more than another, or have more red, green, or other spectrum needs... but with most halides, these bases are covered, as even in the bluest of bulbs, there is still some red, orange, yellow, etc.
Now, with T5s, the outputs can get more narrow. You could have a tank that is mostly blue and need to add some 3000K bulbs to bring up the red, as the blue+ type bulbs may put out loads of actinic, blue, and some green, and then drop off with no warmer spectrum output. In this case, a daylight bulb is needed.
With LEDs, its even more important to have good bulb husbandry, as these bulbs are 420nm, 450nm blue, 300nmUV, green, red, daylight (and these superwhites are still mostly blue)... so what you are saying with spectrum being more important will more likely ring true with LEDs in the future. But for 90% or more of what people are using right now, all the bases on spectrum output are covered, and the real only concern is how it looks to you, and PAR.
FWIW, the Red Tide / USB 650 spectrometer wasnt that much. I just find the PAR meter much more informative. The spectrometer is good for bulb comparisons, and getting info on certain bulb mixes/combos... but after that, its pretty much a one trick pony... you know what you are working with. The PAR meter, OTOH, will never run out of uses.
Now, with T5s, the outputs can get more narrow. You could have a tank that is mostly blue and need to add some 3000K bulbs to bring up the red, as the blue+ type bulbs may put out loads of actinic, blue, and some green, and then drop off with no warmer spectrum output. In this case, a daylight bulb is needed.
With LEDs, its even more important to have good bulb husbandry, as these bulbs are 420nm, 450nm blue, 300nmUV, green, red, daylight (and these superwhites are still mostly blue)... so what you are saying with spectrum being more important will more likely ring true with LEDs in the future. But for 90% or more of what people are using right now, all the bases on spectrum output are covered, and the real only concern is how it looks to you, and PAR.
FWIW, the Red Tide / USB 650 spectrometer wasnt that much. I just find the PAR meter much more informative. The spectrometer is good for bulb comparisons, and getting info on certain bulb mixes/combos... but after that, its pretty much a one trick pony... you know what you are working with. The PAR meter, OTOH, will never run out of uses.
TropTrea
New member
All bulbs metal hides, floresent, or other types shift with age. Usually there is consioderable shift in the first 100 hours of operation then after that the shift is very slow and gradual. As far what color temp it will shift to depends a lot on the particular bulb and the impurities that into it during manufacture.
after 1200 hours noticing a shift is not completly unusual. Generaly speaking that is 150 days of using the bulb for 8 hours per day. DE Hides have life expectancies of from 6 months to 1 year depending on how fussy one is and how long of an on cycle they are using.
Dennis
after 1200 hours noticing a shift is not completly unusual. Generaly speaking that is 150 days of using the bulb for 8 hours per day. DE Hides have life expectancies of from 6 months to 1 year depending on how fussy one is and how long of an on cycle they are using.
Dennis
Rhodesholar
New member
I read the research report on DE MH 150 watt bulbs from a 2002 issue of Advanced Aquarist by Dr Sanjay and the conclusion was the Icecap was an excellent bulb.
Is this still the case?
I apologize if this was the wrong place to ask but I have tried everywhere else.
Is this still the case?
I apologize if this was the wrong place to ask but I have tried everywhere else.
What lighting for Frag / Growout for a major large tank build for myself. Which system of lighting would be recommended, which would then dictate the tank build. Or other recommended variation??
1. 48†X 96†with ??? T 5’s
2. 40†X 80†with Lumenarcs ??? MH
Either Tank would be 14†deep SW, racetrack design, end overflows with Tunze and wave boxes. Sump would have L.R and Mud filter with available Skimmer and Dosing. Blu Coral / “Pappone†Fastest growth for SPS ???
Tanks need to be built here in Bolivia but hardware can be brought from U.S. or Europe.
Frags to follow.
Thanx
1. 48†X 96†with ??? T 5’s
2. 40†X 80†with Lumenarcs ??? MH
Either Tank would be 14†deep SW, racetrack design, end overflows with Tunze and wave boxes. Sump would have L.R and Mud filter with available Skimmer and Dosing. Blu Coral / “Pappone†Fastest growth for SPS ???
Tanks need to be built here in Bolivia but hardware can be brought from U.S. or Europe.
Frags to follow.
Thanx
Rhodesholar
New member
hahnmeister,
I couldn't agree more. I don't know why the trend has been to higher K bulbs when it is the PAR that matters. In the case of Acros the corals color because their pigments are their defense against UV. So logic would tell us we want very high PAR bulbs which are 6500k followed by 10k. If you want blue water, supplement with actinic, or higher K bulbs.
There may be those who disagree but from what I have been reading 10k is the best all around spectrum, and actually 6500k is better as far as PAR.
I think a possible silver bullet is a high PAR bulb in a high K temp. That one guy is raving about the Iwasaki bulb and looking at the specs it is pretty impressive for a 14k bulb for PAR level.
As far as color this guy says alkalinity has something to do with it.
http://www.reefcorner.com/Manual/sps_coloration.htm
And Boreneman says it is a alot of things.
http://www.reefs.org/library/aquarium_net/0597/0597_2.html
I couldn't agree more. I don't know why the trend has been to higher K bulbs when it is the PAR that matters. In the case of Acros the corals color because their pigments are their defense against UV. So logic would tell us we want very high PAR bulbs which are 6500k followed by 10k. If you want blue water, supplement with actinic, or higher K bulbs.
There may be those who disagree but from what I have been reading 10k is the best all around spectrum, and actually 6500k is better as far as PAR.
I think a possible silver bullet is a high PAR bulb in a high K temp. That one guy is raving about the Iwasaki bulb and looking at the specs it is pretty impressive for a 14k bulb for PAR level.
As far as color this guy says alkalinity has something to do with it.
http://www.reefcorner.com/Manual/sps_coloration.htm
And Boreneman says it is a alot of things.
http://www.reefs.org/library/aquarium_net/0597/0597_2.html
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Rhodesholar
New member
Dr Joshi
I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for the work you do and being kind enough to make it available to the reefing public at large.
I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for the work you do and being kind enough to make it available to the reefing public at large.
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