ComforablyNumb
New member
You can see mine in the preceding pages. I have no idea why potatohead is trying convert this guy into t5 when he said he preferred led (as do most hobbyists these days)
Its like he taking this whole thing personally lol
Lights... hit me...
- Thread starter Gweeds
- Start date
You can see mine in the preceding pages. I have no idea why potatohead is trying convert this guy into t5 when he said he preferred led (as do most hobbyists these days)
Its like he taking this whole thing personally lol
Potatohead
New member
You sure you don't want to edit this post again? I count twice, any more points to throw in there before I respond? I don't particularly get along with you, I'll give you that, but you're an interesting person at least.
I never recommended anything to Slief, I complimented him on his YouTube videos and his tank is beautiful, so I'm not following what you are on about. If however by "him" you are referring to the OP, I have already told him in PM that I hope what he decides on works out for him and that his tank turns out great.
The purpose of debating earlier in this thread was to compare lighting sources, which is kind of what the middle point of this thread turned into. Once you posted your pic of the stylo is when it all kicked off. Unfortunately it got a bit ugly because some people seem to get offended when their specific choice is not perhaps the best choice. Human nature I guess.
I can see this thread has run its course and is going in circles, so I will bow out. You said that at one point earlier too, remember?
I really do hope for the OP that things work out how he wants.ComforablyNumb
New member
No ..I do not want to, or need to, edit my post. I stand by that comment.
"I never recommended anything to Slief, I complimented him on his YouTube videos and his tank is beautiful, so I'm not following what you are on about." I was obviously referring to you pushing t5 on the OP and not slief. Were you confused by that?
And how would anyone know what you sent him in a pm?
"it got a bit ugly because some people seem to get offended when their specific choice is not perhaps the best choice"
It got a bit ugly when folks started called others names, if you recall. And in regard to the above statement from you, all I can do is quote your words back to you: "people seem to get offended when their specific choice is not perhaps the best choice"..which in my opinion is you and t5. You slag Kessil (which is ridiculous to start with) and seem to be on some anti-kessil/led mission.
I posted my pics...where can I see yours please?
"I never recommended anything to Slief, I complimented him on his YouTube videos and his tank is beautiful, so I'm not following what you are on about." I was obviously referring to you pushing t5 on the OP and not slief. Were you confused by that?
And how would anyone know what you sent him in a pm?
"it got a bit ugly because some people seem to get offended when their specific choice is not perhaps the best choice"
It got a bit ugly when folks started called others names, if you recall. And in regard to the above statement from you, all I can do is quote your words back to you: "people seem to get offended when their specific choice is not perhaps the best choice"..which in my opinion is you and t5. You slag Kessil (which is ridiculous to start with) and seem to be on some anti-kessil/led mission.
I posted my pics...where can I see yours please?
Potatohead
New member
At least now I can prove you are a liar;
:facepalm: :lolspin:
Cache. It'll get you every time.
There is no LED bashing in this thread. A simple statement that T5 provides better coverage, better illumination of SPS for lower cost was made and one person has been on a personal crusade to convince (someone) otherwise.
We've proven beyond doubt with hard numbers that lighting such a large tank (8ft) with brand name LEDs is not going to work for Gweed's budget nor will it be the best result for the SPS he wishes to keep.
1)The assertion that LEDs will illuminate undersides of SPS branches via bouncing light off glass has been shown to be false.
2)The perceived cost issue of replacing bulbs in a T5 fixture has been proven a non issue up until 6+ years of ownership, increasing with each additional LED fixture required.
3)One Kessil A360 per 2ft will not be sufficient for an SPS dominant tank.
Read our own Kessil Club thread, http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2474225&page=46
At 12" deep, a Kessil A360 at full intensity only registers 104PAR in the center and a paltry 66PAR 12' to the side. This light will be fine for softies and some hardy corals like Seriato.
Gweed's will have to make a decision based upon what exactly he wants to keep in this tank, and how long he plans on doing it. If he is determined to go full blown SPS from the start, T5 is clearly the winner. It will do the best job and it will do it for the least money. Or, if he wants to dip his toes into SPS he could go Chinese box early on, which will grow softies and the seriatopora types fine, and then slowly add more units mounted from various angles when his SPS collection grows.
Its an expensive hobby and its hard to cut corners long term. Pick a goal, set your expectations and choose the technology that will deliver it.
We've proven beyond doubt with hard numbers that lighting such a large tank (8ft) with brand name LEDs is not going to work for Gweed's budget nor will it be the best result for the SPS he wishes to keep.
1)The assertion that LEDs will illuminate undersides of SPS branches via bouncing light off glass has been shown to be false.
2)The perceived cost issue of replacing bulbs in a T5 fixture has been proven a non issue up until 6+ years of ownership, increasing with each additional LED fixture required.
3)One Kessil A360 per 2ft will not be sufficient for an SPS dominant tank.
Read our own Kessil Club thread, http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2474225&page=46
At 12" deep, a Kessil A360 at full intensity only registers 104PAR in the center and a paltry 66PAR 12' to the side. This light will be fine for softies and some hardy corals like Seriato.
Gweed's will have to make a decision based upon what exactly he wants to keep in this tank, and how long he plans on doing it. If he is determined to go full blown SPS from the start, T5 is clearly the winner. It will do the best job and it will do it for the least money. Or, if he wants to dip his toes into SPS he could go Chinese box early on, which will grow softies and the seriatopora types fine, and then slowly add more units mounted from various angles when his SPS collection grows.
Its an expensive hobby and its hard to cut corners long term. Pick a goal, set your expectations and choose the technology that will deliver it.
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ComforablyNumb
New member
Hey potatohead...how does that prove me a liar pls?
I have no idea what you were trying to prove with that.
Where did I lie? Am I missing something here?
I have no idea what you were trying to prove with that.
Where did I lie? Am I missing something here?
ComforablyNumb
New member
You have got to be kidding there, right? How many examples from this thread do you want me to repost that clearly indicate bashing of Kessil and LEDS? There's one right on this page lol
1)The assertion that LEDs will illuminate undersides of SPS branches via bouncing light off glass has been shown to be false.
It certainly has not. You have seen pics of sleif's tank, have you not? 100% lit with led.
2)The perceived cost issue of replacing bulbs in a T5 fixture has been proven a non issue..
Its not a perceived cost at all..it is a real cost and it IS an issue compared to leds. And I was very conservative on my cost assessment of replacing bulbs previously.. that is... what I posted previously would be the absolute minimum cost.
Actual cost: multiply 12 tubes for an 8' tank and replaced annually for 6 yrs..you have a total of $1,800...or $900 for a 4' tank...just for bulbs!
(12bulbs x 6yrs x $25 per = $1,800 or 6bulbs x6yrs x $25 per = $900) <--bulb replacement only
I set up my entire tank for $1150... including two new kessils!
3)One Kessil A360 per 2ft will not be sufficient for an SPS dominant tank.
My tank is a mixed reef with several sps. And as you could see, my sps are growing quite well.
Read our own Kessil Club thread, http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2474225&page=46
I made the last two posts there. Duh. Including posting that wonderful review of kessil by BRS.
T5 is clearly the winner.
Why do you keep repeating that lie? Leds work great so does mH, combo's and hybrids. Not many people like the flat look of a t5 tank.
Its an expensive hobby and its hard to cut corners long term. Pick a goal, set your expectations and choose the technology that will deliver it.
I agree..it can be very expensive, but it does not have to be as expensive as what everyone thinks it has to be. I know you've seen my keeping it simple thread..the hardware for that tank, including:
tank - $100
new kessil lights - 800
skimmer - 150
heater - 50
powerhead - 50
totals $1150
And I keep sps fine.
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Please post a few that show the baseless bashing of LED
I've seen all the pics, we've been over the bony white undersides back in the early pages. The pics of your tank do not show anything that disproves the realities of LED and the Kessil A360 in particular. Potato posted the BRS findings, the images clearly show dark shadows everywhere. If you can see black, you can see the truth.
Yes we've been over this, you simply post the cost of bulbs each time and stick a full stop at the end. Bulbs cost money each year, we all know it, I posted it. What you refuse to acknowledge is the start up cost of LED. Bulbs costing money over 6+ years is not an issue if you're spending that same exact money on the LED fixture on day one.
You aren't running an SPS tank. You have a softy tank with some Seriato/Stylo. Anyone can grow that, and that is why you are with such low PAR numbers. No one with an SPS tank is running 66PAR. Almost every tank is 18" deep, this drops peak PAR down to 73 in a 24"x24" tank.
Its relative. Its a good light for a certain size tank with certain corals inside it. 4 cylinder cars are wonderful to, unless you're on the track.
I've already shown you. Everyone at BRS uses T5 over their tank, bar one person with 2 years experience that uses LED. T5 is the gold standard that LED manufacturers are trying to replicate, as said by Ryan at BRS.
You cant have your cake and eat it too, BRS are correct across the board.
I see you posted in the 'Anyone still keeping it simple thread' posted on the 5/6/2017 and then made the same thread 'Keeping it simple and it works' on the 17/7/2017. It had a few items about LED knockers and the same pictures you posted in this thread, it looked a bit triggered to be honest.
This thread is not about the cost of a system, its about the cost of lighting an SPS system.
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Potatohead
New member
Having to spell this out for you is just lame.
You can check post 340 in each pic if you'd like. One has you quoting my post to Slief, and then you somehow wondered why I thought you were referring to Slief and not the OP. You later edited that post to a different quote and also added two more sentences to it. You then stated in a later post that you "stand by the comment" that you never edited your post, which is quite obviously either a bold faced lie or you went to the Trump school of debate, or both.
Bronx is bang on. You can't handle the fact people are providing solid facts against your preferred choice. I find debating these things very interesting and educational and I don't particularly care either way what the OP or you or anyone else does, but by providing evidence favouring my side of the debate does not mean I am trying to belittle anyone else or their choice of equipment. You don't seem to understand that.
ComforablyNumb
New member
OMG..you two.
"What you refuse to acknowledge is the start up cost of LED."
I posted my exact start up cost for LED. So that statement of yours is pure bullsh*t.
"Please post a few that show the baseless bashing of LED" and Kessil
I will if I have to..there's one right on this page. Are you sure you want me to embarrass you further?
I've seen all the pics, we've been over the bony white undersides..
Did you tell slief that? lol His tank is 100% led.
Bulbs costing money over 6+ years is not an issue if you're spending that same exact money on the LED fixture on day one.
It certainly is when you add the cost of an ATI fixture (or whatever one you chose) PLUS the bulb replacement costs! Tell me what that total for 6 yrs would be for a 4' tank lit with an ATI t5 fixture including bulb replacements...... and compare it to my total cost of $800. I await your math.
You aren't running an SPS tank. You have a softy tank with some Seriato/Stylo.
Bullsh*t. I said I was running a mixed reef..I have 18 sps/lps in my tank as I previously said.
BRS are correct across the board.
BRS posted a wonderful review of the A360. It was so good I posted it in the Kessil thread.
I see you posted in the 'Anyone still keeping it simple thread' posted on the 5/6/2017 and then made the same thread 'Keeping it simple and it works' on the 17/7/2017.
Yes I did. And I posted it for a reason...all the pics in the orig were gone. I explained that in the first line of that thread. And there were 10 positive comments in both threads for every one that was bashing it.
Now.... I will deal with Potatohead's contining BS in my next post.
"What you refuse to acknowledge is the start up cost of LED."
I posted my exact start up cost for LED. So that statement of yours is pure bullsh*t.
"Please post a few that show the baseless bashing of LED" and Kessil
I will if I have to..there's one right on this page. Are you sure you want me to embarrass you further?
I've seen all the pics, we've been over the bony white undersides..
Did you tell slief that? lol His tank is 100% led.
Bulbs costing money over 6+ years is not an issue if you're spending that same exact money on the LED fixture on day one.
It certainly is when you add the cost of an ATI fixture (or whatever one you chose) PLUS the bulb replacement costs! Tell me what that total for 6 yrs would be for a 4' tank lit with an ATI t5 fixture including bulb replacements...... and compare it to my total cost of $800. I await your math.
You aren't running an SPS tank. You have a softy tank with some Seriato/Stylo.
Bullsh*t. I said I was running a mixed reef..I have 18 sps/lps in my tank as I previously said.
BRS are correct across the board.
BRS posted a wonderful review of the A360. It was so good I posted it in the Kessil thread.
I see you posted in the 'Anyone still keeping it simple thread' posted on the 5/6/2017 and then made the same thread 'Keeping it simple and it works' on the 17/7/2017.
Yes I did. And I posted it for a reason...all the pics in the orig were gone. I explained that in the first line of that thread. And there were 10 positive comments in both threads for every one that was bashing it.
Now.... I will deal with Potatohead's contining BS in my next post.
ComforablyNumb
New member
"You then stated in a later post that you "stand by the comment" that you never edited your post"
Bull. Show me where I that. I didn't..
Trump school..
Trump U grad are you? I graduated from McGill with an MBA. (say I am arrogant..whatever. I also have almost 3 decades experience with reefs)
Having to spell this out for you is just lame.
You still have not shown where I lied. Show me a lie pls. You can't because I did not lie.
Talk about lame....
Bull. Show me where I that. I didn't..
Trump school..
Trump U grad are you? I graduated from McGill with an MBA. (say I am arrogant..whatever. I also have almost 3 decades experience with reefs)
Having to spell this out for you is just lame.
You still have not shown where I lied. Show me a lie pls. You can't because I did not lie.
Talk about lame....
Your lighting is irrelevant to Gweed's. He is setting up an SPS tank.
I've asked twice now, procrastinate no longer, post them.
I said the undersides were bony.
I've already done it, page 3. You need to slow down and read. Now dont forget, this is using the ATI eight (8) bulb fixture, he could use a 6:
2 x ATI Sunpower T5 Pendant 8 x 54w £430 each, £860 total.
4 x Hydra 52s. £529 each, £2116.
7 x A360s, they're £325 each for a total of £2275.
Bulb changes £320/year. It'll take 4.5 years to break even using Kessil A360, longer if he uses the 6 bulb fixture.
Gweed's tank is 26" deep, the Kessil can't manage 80 PAR at 18", its useless to him.
Yes, 18 total corals and about 2 are Stylo/Seriato. Its not a light demanding tank.
You repeat this over and over, its not bothering me.
Could have posted them in the thread that came before yours.
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ComforablyNumb
New member
You can check post 340 in each pic if you'd like.
The one where you were bashing LED's... like Bronx said... no one bashed LED's in this thread?
lol
The one where you were bashing LED's... like Bronx said... no one bashed LED's in this thread?
lol
ComforablyNumb
New member
I posted my exact start up cost for LED. So that statement of yours is pure bullsh*t.
Your lighting is irrelevant to Gweed's. He is setting up an SPS tank.
lol..twisting words again I see. How juvenile. Who do you think you're fooling anyway? You said I did not address the initial cost of leds when clearly I did. lol
Your lighting is irrelevant to Gweed's. He is setting up an SPS tank.
lol..twisting words again I see. How juvenile. Who do you think you're fooling anyway? You said I did not address the initial cost of leds when clearly I did. lol
ComforablyNumb
New member
I said the undersides were bony.
You said that to slief? You said that to me.
You said that to slief? You said that to me.
ComforablyNumb
New member
Yes, 18 total corals and about 2 are Stylo/Seriato. Its not a light demanding tank.
Its demanding enough when I have several sps doing quite well. SEVERAL! Not 2.
Its demanding enough when I have several sps doing quite well. SEVERAL! Not 2.
ComforablyNumb
New member
Bulb changes £320/year. It'll take 4.5 years to break even using Kessil A360
even using your math I win. lol
even using your math I win. lol
ComforablyNumb
New member
BRS posted a wonderful review of the A360. It was so good I posted it in the Kessil thread.
You repeat this over and over, its not bothering me.
Are you sure? Why do you bring it up again if it doesnt bother you?
You repeat this over and over, its not bothering me.
Are you sure? Why do you bring it up again if it doesnt bother you?
ComforablyNumb
New member
Could have posted them in the thread that came before yours.
What post about that came before mine? Did someone else post a thread like that?
I thought I was the only one, no?...and I wanted to post it again because Phtotbucket ruined the first one.
What post about that came before mine? Did someone else post a thread like that?
I thought I was the only one, no?...and I wanted to post it again because Phtotbucket ruined the first one.
How am I twisting your words? I'll do YOUR tank if you insist:
48" 4x54w ATI Sunpower $469.95.
Bulb replacements $80/year.
Break even on your $800 in 4.1 years.
