Lights... hit me...

[LQT]

The problem with the kessils is they just don't have the power to perform well on deep tanks especially on SPS reefs.

My recommendation was based specifically on the OP's tank size (26" is not prohibitively deep), budget limits and requirement of LEDs. The Kessil recommendation is based on following Slief's experiences with the multiple a360 fixtures that he owned on his 500 gallon SPS dominant tank. Take a look at Scott's build thread (be ready for a lot of reading ) and tell me that these lights, when the proper number of fixtures are used don't work...

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1783476

Are there other equally or more effective lighting options available? Absolutely. But again, I'm recommending what I think would be very effective based on the OP's stated requirements.

 

[Joke]

I never said that they don't work I said they don't work well on deeper tanks. They can be used but with a system full of SPS the op will be wanting more light fast. The tank is deep for kessils on their own IMO, I would only use them by themselves on a tank no deeper than 18".

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[Potatohead]

Have you ever seen a tank lit by GHL Mitras LEDs? Looks exactly like a T5 lit tank. LEDs are quite versatile. How light gets distributed depends entirely on the design of the light.

I have not, but I know GHL product is excellent. I have doubt it's "exactly like T5" but I don't doubt it's extremely good for LED.

 

[LQT]

I never said that they don't work I said they don't work well on deeper tanks. They can be used but with a system full of SPS the op will be wanting more light fast. The tank is deep for kessils on their own IMO, I would only use them by themselves on a tank no deeper than 18".

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Unlike a good portion of this thread, I guess we could amicably agree to disagree! :beer:

 

[ComforablyNumb]

I guess we could amicably agree to disagree! :beer:

I tried that with him long ago..didn't work. I hope you have better luck. Cheers.

 

[Fredfish]

I have not, but I know GHL product is excellent. I have doubt it's "exactly like T5" but I don't doubt it's extremely good for LED.

I don't think for a second they are exactly the same, but they do a very good job of distributing light. I'm surprised that other manufacturers have not switched from lenses to reflectors. It may well be a cost thing.

 

[ArmanS]

Mitras are very nice LED lights but it does not look exactly like a tank lit with T5.

If you want to grow any SPS Coral -> MH
If you want to grow any coral w/o as much heat -> T5
If you want T5 but like shimmer -> T5 & LED Hybrid
If you want to grow the 90% of corals and want complete control -> LED**

When LED first came out everyone was talking about how much money it saves you on electricity cost and bulb replacement cost. It does not even out for a few years and even then, I doubt most people who buy LED lights will stick with the same fixture for 3+ years.

I'm not interested in being able to constantly adjust the exact colors my lights produce, I just want the best lights to grow any coral I can in my tank without producing as much heat as MH, that's why I run ATI Hybrids.


**Need to have enough units, typically 1.5-2x the manufacture recommendation IMO.

 

[slief]

The problem with the kessils is they just don't have the power to perform well on deep tanks especially on SPS reefs.

That just depends on how deep and what Kessil you choose. For tanks deeper than 24", Kessil offers the 360NE's though I think the WE's will be just fine for 26" deep. My tank is 24" deep and I had no issues with corals even at the bottom of the tank with Kessil 360WE's and contrary to what was stated above, I have had no issues with shadowing at all. I will also note that I never exceeded 75% intensity with my Kessils leaving a lot of room for additional depth if more power is needed It's all about coverage and how you position the lights. On a smaller tank, it's a bit more difficult and can require more light density than on a larger footprint. My SPS all grow like weeds so I can attest to Kessils working just fine over a 24" tank.

 

[Fredfish]

Mitras are very nice LED lights but it does not look exactly like a tank lit with T5.

If you want to grow any SPS Coral -> MH
If you want to grow any coral w/o as much heat -> T5
If you want T5 but like shimmer -> T5 & LED Hybrid
If you want to grow the 90% of corals and want complete control -> LED**

When LED first came out everyone was talking about how much money it saves you on electricity cost and bulb replacement cost. It does not even out for a few years and even then, I doubt most people who buy LED lights will stick with the same fixture for 3+ years.

I'm not interested in being able to constantly adjust the exact colors my lights produce, I just want the best lights to grow any coral I can in my tank without producing as much heat as MH, that's why I run ATI Hybrids.


**Need to have enough units, typically 1.5-2x the manufacture recommendation IMO.

Nobody said the Mitras were exactly the same.

Generalities are nice in theory, but useless in practice.

Have a 10 gallon tank you want some corals in? LED is the only practical choice hands down.

Live in Alaska? Blast away with MH. Most of the year its an energy transfer from the furnace to your MH lights.

Live in Florida like Ron does? It makes a large difference to your energy bill and makes your payback period much shorter.

Don't like the look of T5 (I personally hate it)? They're useless.

Understand the advantages and disadvantages of each type of lighting and pick what works in your situation.

 

[Potatohead]

Nobody said the Mitras were exactly the same.

Are you sure about that?

Have you ever seen a tank lit by GHL Mitras LEDs? Looks exactly like a T5 lit tank. LEDs are quite versatile. How light gets distributed depends entirely on the design of the light.

 

[ArmanS]

Nobody said the Mitras were exactly the same.

Have you ever seen a tank lit by GHL Mitras LEDs? Looks exactly like a T5 lit tank. LEDs are quite versatile. How light gets distributed depends entirely on the design of the light.

Of course my post regarding the various light choices was a general statement for most people. You can always bring up extreme conditions to invalidate a point...

 

[ComforablyNumb]

I think the vast majority of advancements will happen in LED. This is basically chip technology, its going to do nothing but advance in engineering and value. I see very limited tech breakthru's for t5 an mH.

Kessil alone claims $30million in R & D research and development into LED.

 

[Joke]

I tried that with him long ago..didn't work. I hope you have better luck. Cheers.

???

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[Joke]

That just depends on how deep and what Kessil you choose. For tanks deeper than 24", Kessil offers the 360NE's though I think the WE's will be just fine for 26" deep. My tank is 24" deep and I had no issues with corals even at the bottom of the tank with Kessil 360WE's and contrary to what was stated above, I have had no issues with shadowing at all. I will also note that I never exceeded 75% intensity with my Kessils leaving a lot of room for additional depth if more power is needed It's all about coverage and how you position the lights. On a smaller tank, it's a bit more difficult and can require more light density than on a larger footprint. My SPS all grow like weeds so I can attest to Kessils working just fine over a 24" tank.

Not being rude or trying to offend you but your tanks SPS are not what I would call colourful (a problem I have had in the past when using kessils by themselves). Keeping a tank full of sticks is not something I would try with kessils again. Maybe I have a problem and am trying to push the boundaries with them by keeping SPS at the lower proportion of the tank, maybe I have high expectations for kessils from what I see cheap eBay leds doing for my and others corals.
Maybe I have been looking at the wrong parts of your tank, feel free to move me to the right page of your tank thread so I can take my words back.

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[Bronx19]

Live in Florida like Ron does? It makes a large difference to your energy bill and makes your payback period much shorter.

Don't like the look of T5 (I personally hate it)? They're useless.

If you're referring to MH when you say large energy savings with LED I obviously agree. MH has no place anymore IMO, vast amounts of heat and thus massive waste of energy.

How you could possibly hate the look of an ATI or Giesemann T5 fixture is beyond me. They are stunning, especially the Dimtec and Aurora. Its statement piece furniture grade.

As for useless, not sure where you going with that.

 

[Bronx19]

I think the vast majority of advancements will happen in LED. This is basically chip technology, its going to do nothing but advance in engineering and value. I see very limited tech breakthru's for t5 an mH.

Kessil alone claims $30million in R & D research and development into LED.

You said that pages back, any ideas what it will be? In all the years of LED, what have they 'advanced' with their $30million? The LED manufacturers made more powerful diodes (which the hobby didn't need) and fixture manufacturers put lens shaped glass in front of them. Hell, how much money did Marsaqua and Reefbreeder put in to make a cheap LED that does essentially the same job?

There will not be any 'tech breakthroughs' in T5, they've already been done. You're looking at cylindrical fluoro bulb technology the wrong way. We started with T12, then T8, then T5. Then they put aluminium reflectors on, then it was silver, now its micro silver at 98% reflection.

T5 is the end product of decades of advancement in fluo bulb technology, not a work in progress.

 

[slief]

Not being rude or trying to offend you but your tanks SPS are not what I would call colourful (a problem I have had in the past when using kessils by themselves). Keeping a tank full of sticks is not something I would try with kessils again. Maybe I have a problem and am trying to push the boundaries with them by keeping SPS at the lower proportion of the tank, maybe I have high expectations for kessils from what I see cheap eBay leds doing for my and others corals.
Maybe I have been looking at the wrong parts of your tank, feel free to move me to the right page of your tank thread so I can take my words back.

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No offense taken and you bring up a very interesting point. Much of the color we see in our corals inside our tanks is to a minor extent artificial. As a scuba diver of over 30 years, I can tell you that for the most part, the corals in the ocean look nothing like what we often see in these tanks. It's the lighting over our tanks that create some of the colors we see in these corals. UV, Royal Blue, Red Diodes, Green Diodes all tend to bring out colors in our corals that we wouldn't see under a typical whiter spectrum or blue spectrum for that matter. Case in point, I have a strawberry shortcake colony that I grew in part under Kessils. I put a frag of that coral in my frag tank under the GHL Mitras LX7 and it looked completely different. What was a kind of beige coral with red polyps was fluorescent green and red under the Mitras. Because of that, I added GHL Mitras to my display at the beginning of this year in part for that reason. I had much more control over the diode channels which translated into more control over the coloration of the corals. I also have a nice Loony Tunes cyphastrea that I got which was pretty much all blue with washed out orange polyps. It's now purple with flaming orange and yellow polyps all because of the light it's under. That coral was originally grown under T5's but it came to life under the Mitras. The only way I have been able to get good pictures showing the coloration is top down and since adding the Mitras, I really haven't taken any new pictures trying to show the coloration. Even so, what you see with the eye vs what you see in a picture.

That said, here is the tank of the month thread on my tank from early this year. I added some good pictures to it that show some of the coloration. It seems that the pictures from the moderator are not visible but if you scroll down you can see some of mine. I really need to bust out my camera though because the difference in size and colors of some of the corals between then and now are night and day and some of the ones that aren't showing were really good pictures include some of those under the Mitras in my frag tank.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2616842&highlight=tank+of+the+month

 

[Joke]

Totally agree.
I my self am a freediver/personal collector on the reefs of Australia. The colours on the reef are very pale unlike our tanks and only flickers of bright colour can be seen up close. But to be honest it's the colour we are after and kessils in my experience don't cut it, but then again if a natural reef look is something you are after then by all means buy away and they have some of the best shimmer we can achieve in a reef aquarium.

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[Joke]

BTW i am unable to see the photos due to the photobucket 3rd party issue.

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[slief]

BTW i am unable to see the photos due to the photobucket 3rd party issue.

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For some reason the ones hosted by the forum are not visible. If you scroll down I posted a bunch of pictures on the thread as well. would you can see towards the bottom of the first page as well as the subsequent pages.