List of devices known to function problematically connected to EB8?

[byronsands]

When can I find a list of devices known to function problematically when connected to an EB8 on outlets 1-3 or 5-7? The rather vague answer is "things consuming < 4-5 watts", but having a list of known devices would be more help than trial and error -- which becomes expensive.

Apparently my BRS dosing pumps should reside on such a list.

I have put the question to Neptune but have not yet received a response.

hint, hint: if no such list exists, maybe it could added to the UNUG in a future release?

 

[byronsands]

just got a response back from Neptune support -- they do not have such a list available for their clients, so it's up to us reefers to create our own I suppose. Trial and error can get expensive. So maybe we can share the experience of which equipment has become known to function problematically with an EB8.

From my experience related to EB8 ports 1-3 or 5-7:

Device: BRS 1.1 mL dosing pump

Problem: EB8 port may not shut off when instructed to do so with a BRS 1.1mL dosing pump connected.

Outcome: dosing pump will run continously and meter its entire volume into your system at one time.

Neptune suggestion: don't plug the device into one of those ports, the EB8 can't handle it.

 

[L8ndeb]

Anything that draws less than 5 watts.

 

[byronsands]

Anything that draws less than 5 watts.

sorry, that's the standard response offered up by everyone based on hearsay, but not a helpful response... many (most) retailers don't even reflect the power draw of product. And its a generalization that is not totally applicable here...

An actual list based on experience of reefers would be helpful.

 

[kurt_n]

From personal experience, and not hearsay, I've found the "nothing less than 5W" rule to be a pretty safe one. If you follow that rule, there will be no expensive experiments. Not sure why that advice isn't applicable.

Can you use a device that runs 4.2 Watts? Maybe yes. Maybe no. In my brief experimentation when I set my unit up, I found that sometimes a "borderline Wattage" device would work fine on one triac outlet, but not another. Go figure.

 

[byronsands]

for some us, it appears a list would not be helpful, for others, it will be...

it would also be helpful to have Neptune clearly state in advertising, "do not buy device A if you intend to use devices C, D or E with it; rather buy device B". Because they dont take it back later if you realize you were sold the wrong device.

A list might be helpful. Just saying...

the hobby is expensive enough without having to waste money via trial and error.

 

[L8ndeb]

sorry, that's the standard response offered up by everyone based on hearsay, but not a helpful response... many (most) retailers don't even reflect the power draw of product. And its a generalization that is not totally applicable here...

An actual list based on experience of reefers would be helpful.

Hearsay? Not helpful? Generalization not applicable? Really?

Do you expect Neptune to expend time, money, to do something that has already been tested by reefers? They are not Microsoft. God knows how many products that have ever been manufactuered for our hobby that my have a problem with the Triac receptacles.
There are dozens, if not hundreds of posts that pertain to the 5watt rule. Why do you think they are out there? Because people have the same question you did, and other people have gone through the same thing. That is why the 5watt rule exists.

BTW, if you have a question regarding the power draw of a product, and the specs are not included with the product, either Google it, contact the manufacturer, post the question on RC, no wait..........let's let Neptune do it. Or you can take the advice of fellow reefer here on RC that have been there done that.

Sorry to be snotty, but your post just rubs me the wrong way. Good luck in finding what you need.

 

[byronsands]

Sorry to be snotty, but your post just rubs me the wrong way. Good luck in finding what you need.

we all get rubbed the wrong way from time to time... hope it don't disrupt your life too much...

sorry that a technical issue causes you personal concern. If you have an investment in Neptune, keep it... they do have good products.

 

[L8ndeb]

we all get rubbed the wrong way from time to time... hope it don't disrupt your life too much....

Nah, life has much more pressing issues than to let a thread disrupt my life. But thanks for your concern.

sorry that a technical issue causes you personal concern. If you have an investment in Neptune, keep it... they do have good products.

It's not the technical issue that causes me personal concern. It's the fact that a person comes to a place seeking help. When their question is answered, however not how the person posing the question wants it answered, they procede to either belittle, demean, or deem the answer irrelevant. And usually without bothering to do any research.

Would a list of devices that may have trouble on the EB8 be helpful? Maybe for a select few. But I think that most people that post here will take the advice given, do a little research, then decide to follow it or not.

Again, good luck, and good night

 

[byronsands]

Layton, this thread is about creating (and/or sharing) a list of devices that operate problematicaly on an EB8. You appear to have a problem with that concept. Fine. Ignore this thread and move on to one which excites you. I'm fine with that.

 

[RussM]

sorry, that's the standard response offered up by everyone based on hearsay,

I wouldn't say it's just hearsay... it may be often-repeated, but the basis is shared experiences. When the Apex & EB8 first came out, there was quite a bit of sharing in this regard as I recall.

That said, byronsands, I do like your idea of a list - with some reservation. Maintaining such a list is going to require commitment. Are you willing to step up to the plate? If you are, great! It may be a challenge though... for example, there could very well be conflicting reports for the same device (due to variations in TRIACs as kurt_n mentioned, due to revision of a specific model of device, etc.) To maintain such a list properly, you'd need to track both yeas and nays. You'd also have to determine that each report is based on testing with either an actual EB8 or a DC8 (there still are many many of those in use, some on Apexes), dealing with the fact that people here frequently use the terms DC8 and EB8 interchangeably. Personally, I think it's going to be an exercise in futility.

If you do opt to take it on, I can contribute one entry for you: my Koralia Nano 425 (rated @ 3.5w) does not get shut off reliably on any of three TRIAC-based EB8 outlets I tested.


Folks, there is more to this than just the load in watts... the power factor of the device and the type of load (i.e. resistive or inductive) do have an affect on the ability of a given device to be reliably controlled by a given TRIAC.

The simple 5w rule of thumb *is* a solid guideline for dosing pumps & powerheads plugged into an EB8 (as is the similar 10-12w guideline for the older DC8). Results with other types of devices, such as CO2 solenoids, may vary widely. For example, a while back I ran a test (OSC ON/OFF every 5 seconds) on a nightlight (LED-based, I think - it just gives a greenish glow) that draws a whopping 0.3 watts (no typo - zero point three) - I watched the nightlight for a few minutes - it was operated perfectly. Likewise, a 3w incandescent lamp worked perfectly. And I know that there are people running solenoid valves with miniscule current draw (like 3w) which do operate reliably. Another example... the K-Nano 425 I mentioned above, when plugged into an "outlet saver" pigtail with a tiny embedded LED (like the pic below), does work 100% reliably for me. Others have tried the same or similar pigtails, but it didn't make a difference with the devices they tried. Bottom line - YMMV - always test.

 

[byronsands]

I wouldn't say it's just hearsay... it may be often-repeated, but the basis is shared experiences. When the Apex & EB8 first came out, there was quite a bit of sharing in this regard as I recall.

I used bad terminology here -- and I was not paying much attention to Apex until I began using it.

 

[byronsands]

I hadn't thought the list list through as completely as you... I wasn't thinking that it necessarily needed to be verified.

My thought was to merely list the device, the person who believed it was problematic, the conditions under which the problematic symptoms were observed and the issues arising from the problematic condition.

But I tend to only look at the technical side -- never occurred to me that such a list might engender passion around inclusion, exclusion or mere existence. I didn't see a negative side to the list. To me, such a list would not cast dispersion on the EB8 or on the device in question. It would merely assert the two devices had been observed to function problematically when connected.

I'm not the better person to maintain such a list for a couple of reasons:
1. I don't possess the diplomatic skill to not pi$$ people off.
2. I don't have a place to maintain the list where it would be readily accessible to those wanting it.

 

[schwaggs]

I can see the benifit of a list in Alan's user guide or as a sticky in this forum.

Add:

Tom Products Aqualifter - It does not reliably turn off for me. 3W device.

Marineland Maxi-jet 400 - It does not reliably turn off for me. 5W device.

 

[Landsailor]

Watts = volts * amps

If the wattage isn't provided, then just do some simple division.

 

[byronsands]

Watts = volts * amps

If the wattage isn't provided, then just do some simple division.

That's helpful when you know the volts & amps

 

[bazineta]

Watts is equal to volts * amps for DC circuits only. The EB8 is a single-phase AC device, so real power in Watts = power factor * amps * RMS volts. Power factor of devices varies, so it's not as straightforward as it at first seems.

This annoying interlude (significant investment went into the ability to be this obnoxious, humor me...) is my nerdly way of saying that I think a list would probably be helpful.

 

[l8_apex_it]

I have never found a device which plugs into the wall for electrical requirements which does not at a minimum state the AC voltage and current or wattage. That is all that is needed to verify stated wattage. It may be in very small print but it should be there.

 

[byronsands]

I have never found a device which plugs into the wall for electrical requirements which does not at a minimum state the AC voltage and current or wattage. That is all that is needed to verify stated wattage. It may be in very small print but it should be there.

so you are assuming at this point that you have already purchased and received the product?? That could be an expensive way to find out that it is problematic. If you buy everything at an LFS where you can pull the product out of the box and find the label, that would maybe work to some extent... I tend to purchase over the Internet where labels are inaccessible and specifications are often scarce.

 

[l8_apex_it]

Oh, I know before I even purchase the item roughly how many watts the device is. I was throwing it out as a suggestion for others who may not know. When purchasing from a store I don't mind cracking open the box to read the power requirements. Most devices will have a spec sheet that you can look at over the web too.

Don't forget that if it is a low wattage device you can and should place the device on one of the mechanical relays. If you run out you can get the add-on Apex accessories which have 4 more mechanical relays. The beauty of the Neptune controllers.