Live rock complicated scenario.

T

Theo1972

New member
Hi this is my first message here, and it's...When you add the live rock in your tank, does your sump, skimmer all have to be running? or is that off? not sure, and a bit confused.
What happened to me, is, i have a 265 G tank, my sump is not made yet but its a 75 g tank, have to buy glass to make baffles. I have a skimmer but not in yet. I guess i should say i got excited and put water in my tank with bora rock, some people dont know what it is, but it looks very porous..300lbs of it...i know its dead rock..i put in the water and salt...i have 4 power heads just circulating the water around. Long story short, i was mislead on how to start this project. Some people now say no no no, dont add live sand, or you cant add live rock...I dotn know waht to do, i know i have to make my rock live..so, can i just throw in live rock and wait ? and does my equipment have to be running when i put in live rock? Thank you very much,

Theo,
 
Wow theo, seems like you may have rushed into things, but no damage has been done. One thing, you will get plenty of answers here. For more specific info about your situation, might hit the LARGE reef tanks forum, they are especially for those with tanks 180 gallons and larger, but for basic cycling, and tank set-up questions, here is just fine too.

As to your answer. Seems like you have done NOTHING wrong. It would be nice to have a little more live rock vs. the dead stuff, but stuff happens. You can EASILY "seed" your dead rock with a smaller amount of LR. It will transfer. The bacteria will be one, and if you are not going to have a lot of LR, I would definitely force the cycle a bit more. When you add all your stuff, you have to let it cycle. You can easily do this with LR, but that usually works best when you have a lot of LR. In your case, you would probably only add another 50lbs of real LR, so that amount in that volume will not REALLY cycle the tank. I would throw some raw shrimp in to jump-start the cycle.

I don't want to go too far into it, because I do not know your experience level. Maybe more will have easier, more direct answers. But if you put LS in, that's fine. If you put dead sand in, that's fine. If you put LR in, that's fine. If you put dead rock in, that's fine. I definitely reccomend adding some LR to your dead rock so you can get some of the many beneficial organisms. You could probably leave your tank fishless for a bit longer for most, that way any copepods and amphipods can get bigger in their numbers before letting fish pick on them.
 
Before adding real live rock, I'd have at least the heater and circulation going. It's safest to have the whole system installed, so that you can test whether it's working before having money invested in living organisms. Since you've added only dead rock, it doesn't much matter as long as the pumps are going to keep the water from becoming stagnant.
 
Thanks, guys...ok, i read in other parts of the forum, not to waste time on buying live sand, cause its not that live...i will do it though, ill take ur opinion on that chiefsurfer. I will also buy 50lbs of LR and i dont mind waiting, just want it done properly.
Bertoni, should i have my skimmer going too when i put in my LR and cycling my tank?

Oh, one more question, now a lil confused, i read LR comes cured and uncured, in my case trying to cycle my tank up, do i need cured or uncured LR?


Thank you,

Theo
 
Don't put in too much rock so that the tank is packed. You don't want it to look like brick work. You need a lot of spaces for water to pass through an as well as the fish.
Ken
 
I got the package from tbsaltwater, so I got live sand. Their live sand comes with snails and all kinds of life-forms in it, so I didn't feel it was a rip, also got one of the best deals on my whole set-up, including clean-up-crew with it. If you have sand and debris from live rock floating around because it was just put in, I'd leave your skimmer off FOR A BIT(few hours), but then turn it right on.

Also, if you have 300 lbs(I have no idea what this would look like in your tank) you may want to remove some to place in the LR, because as stated, too much is just plain too much. If you are ordering online, and do not mind spending a few extra bucks, I have heard people ordering 100 lbs of live rock, and choosing what pieces they want depending on shape and what-not. I'd say all you need is about 50 lbs to seed your dead rock.

Uncured rock basically came in and is being sent out. Curing is basically getting rid of all the dead stuff on the rock. This is most important with lower quality rock, as there are seemingly 2 ways to import LR. 1 is to have it flown in from where it is harvested. I do not know any specific examples of any companies that do this, but I am sure there are a FEW. Those rocks are usually a lot more expensive, and incur less die-off. Using that rock uncured is FINE for starting a system. The other, much more prevelant method of shipping, is to have it shipped by boat. A lot of times, this rock may not even be submerged in water, but "sprayed" with water, OR draped with something moist, like a paper towel or the like. Those rocks, while still fine, will incur lots of die-off and take a long time to "cure". Cycling your tank with cured rock will probably take 3-4 weeks or so. Cycling with uncured rock may take 4-6, maybe even 8 weeks, as ther will be a lot more dead stuff on it. If adding rock to an already established tank, NEEDS to be cured first, and that must be done in a different tank, or container.

If getting from a local reefer, or your LFS, it wil be cured already, and will be almost no die-off, therefore cycling of the tank or system would be minimal at best. As I said before, the less dead matter you have for cycling, the smaller the bacteria colonies will be, and you will have to leave longer periods between each live-stock addition.
 
ken, thanks, ill start up the skimmer then right away...yaa, i have a 265 g tank, 300 lbs rock is perfect when i look at it, i wish i can post pics on here, actually can you? not even sure how to do that.
chiefsurfer, thank you for typing that out, i went to my lfs and they sell uncured live rock, so if i have to wait 4-8 weeks, or a few mnths, so be it...not a problem as long as i do it right from now. iam going to remove the top layer of my dead rock and place it with new 50lbs uncured live rock....am i making sense now ? Gonna do it your way see how it goes.. If i buy live sand, would it be smart if i went to someones tank and just got a few buckets of water to put in my tank as it cures? i think i read that somewhere, not sure if its right thing to do, dont want to bring up too many variables here, but for now gonna do as u say...



Thanks,


Theo
 
find a local reefer and trade some of your rock with theirs also get a cup of sand from a couple different reefers to seed the sand. don't worry just take things slowly and it will turn out all right.
 
its funny i just went to a lfs and i asked for water and they said no....but refered me to purchase live sand..hmmm....money grab? might just buy two bags, and let the tank cycle on its own time....with 50lbs or uncured rock....
 
If it is from their tanks, I would say it could be ok. If it is in pre-packaged containers sitting on their floor, wouldn't do it. It is waaaay overpriced IMO.

I wouldn't necessarily get any water from a local reefer, it really won't do much for you. Now if you got a few cups of sand from them, sure.
 
chiefsurfer, im going to follow your instructions....going to remove my top layer of dead rock that i designed in the tank, and put in 50 lbs of uncured live rock, wait for the appropriate time then, i guess i check for amonia, nitrite and nitrate? But i guess its still ok to check those weekly just so you can have a baseline of where you were and where you at or going too....is that ok?
 
Just a couple tips.

If you get sand from an established tank and it's a small amount (a few cups) don't spread it out, make a couple mounds of it in the tank. If you get a bag of LS rinse the bag then lay it on the floor of the tank. Then take a knife/razor and cut the bag and gently lift it out. This will reduce the amount of dust that is kick up in the tank.
 
what I have done is keep a log-book of everything. A mental notebook is fine if you are good at remembering things, I am not.

I tested my water every 2 days all cycle long. There is no way to know EXACTLY how long it will take to cycle your tank. First you should have an ammonia spike, second a nitrite spike, third a nitrate spike. Once the nitrate spike is over. You should read ZERO for ALL parameters(ammonia, nitrite, nitrate) for a week. Once you see zeros for a week, you can start adding livestock. For that size tank, depending on the size of fish, I'd say you can add 2-3 ever 7-10 days. Making sure all parameters stay low. After every addition of livestock, you will see a MINI cycle, starting with ammonia spike, nitrite and nitrate. In a large system, with livestock slowly added, it should be fairly undetectable. Then wait another 3-4 days for your numbers(if any are detected) to come down, then you can add more.
 
chiefsurfer, its like ur reading my mind and answer my questions...i was soo getting to that next...well, if you say i get little mini cycles after i put in my fish, every week letsay i put in two...do i for example just leave my amonia to spike and then nitrate to spike? or do i have to fix that..im saying after i put in my fish...
basa, ok, ill just put on lumps of sand or ill spread out my live sand...i think im gona buy live sand...20 lbs for 25 canadian dollars...maby buy two bags...
 
well whether or not you need to fix it, depends on the amounts. In that system, adding 1 fish 4" or less should have LITTLE impact on your system as a whole. I would say that if you have a spike of MORE than 1.0 ppm ammonia, you should do a water change, or a few to get it near or below 1.0. If you always remove the ammonia through water changes, you never give the bacteria a chance to grow, as they feed on the ammonia, nitrites and nitrites respectively. I would say that nitrite spike should be no higher than 2.0 without a water change, and nitrates you can let get as high as about 60 ppm, as long as it is a progression of the cycle. Nitrates are almost completely harmless to most things.
 
I'd get the skimmer going as soon as possible, to help save life on the live rock, and just to test it. I might do some water changes if the ammonia spiked very much, again, to save life, but it's a lot of work. Neither nitrite nor nitrate are toxic, so they can be ignored during the setup phase.
 
well, im going to be setting up shortly and have everything run, all pumps and skimmer, power heads...then im going to add live rock and test my water every couple of days, mark it down and use that as my baseline...should be good to go...Well if i m ay ask what kind of sump are you guys running? i want to have fish and coral in my tank...so, i have a choice of a sump with the intake, skimmer, refugium to return....or just intake, skimer and return? i guess im asking do u have a refugium? and can i put live rock in there? or does my live rock in my particular situation have to be with my other dead rock?
 
A refugium is nice to have, IMO. It can help with nutrient levels and provide live food for the tank. They're also fun to watch, IMO. They aren't necessary, but they can hold more live rock. The placement of your live rock and dead rock is a question of esthetics, really. :)
 
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