Looking for those who DO NOT do water changes.
- Thread starter eznet2u
- Start date
I have a 150 gal moderately stocked with both fish and coral. It has been set up for 4 years with only rodi unit top off as means for water change if thats what you want to call it for 2 years. I have a skimmer and I add purple up every two weeks or so. Tank is clear and fish and coral thrive.I only feed dry food once a day. Water tests ok.
2) replenishes trace elemants
That is my primary reason for continuing to support water changes.
oh man. anyone but you mike! lol. please take this in the tongue in cheek manner i intend..
every time i hear the phrase 'trace elements' i want to beat the speaker to a bloody pulp with whatever brightly colored bottle they're trying to sell me. we speak of them as if they're some magical ingredient that can only be replenished through a fresh infusion of our artificial salt mixes. forgetting of course, all the 'elements' we add in the form of food, impurities in our supplements, substrate, etc..
it's been a while since i read ron's articles that discussed the compounding effect water changes had on toxic metals in a reef tank but both he and rhf have written some great stuff on the topic. i do remember that they strongly disagreed on a few points.
my point is yes, there are elements that break down, get used up, or otherwise become unavailable to a system over time. but there are also elements present in our salt mixes that accumulate and are toxic to several of the organisms we like to keep. so a water change's net impact on the health of our systems may or may not have a beneficial effect on the concentration of our 'trace elements'.
until we can identify, measure and dose the required elements for maintaining our favored organisms we're really just guessing about the reasons for the efficacy of our husbandry choice to change the damn water. don't pretend you have any idea what you're doing.
if you do water changes to replace trace elements fine.. but at least don the bone necklace, feathers, fur pouches and medicine staff appropriate for the voodoo ritual you're about to perform.
That is my primary reason for continuing to support water changes.
oh man. anyone but you mike! lol. please take this in the tongue in cheek manner i intend..
every time i hear the phrase 'trace elements' i want to beat the speaker to a bloody pulp with whatever brightly colored bottle they're trying to sell me. we speak of them as if they're some magical ingredient that can only be replenished through a fresh infusion of our artificial salt mixes. forgetting of course, all the 'elements' we add in the form of food, impurities in our supplements, substrate, etc..
it's been a while since i read ron's articles that discussed the compounding effect water changes had on toxic metals in a reef tank but both he and rhf have written some great stuff on the topic. i do remember that they strongly disagreed on a few points.
my point is yes, there are elements that break down, get used up, or otherwise become unavailable to a system over time. but there are also elements present in our salt mixes that accumulate and are toxic to several of the organisms we like to keep. so a water change's net impact on the health of our systems may or may not have a beneficial effect on the concentration of our 'trace elements'.
until we can identify, measure and dose the required elements for maintaining our favored organisms we're really just guessing about the reasons for the efficacy of our husbandry choice to change the damn water. don't pretend you have any idea what you're doing.
if you do water changes to replace trace elements fine.. but at least don the bone necklace, feathers, fur pouches and medicine staff appropriate for the voodoo ritual you're about to perform.
Aqua Keepers
New member
Nice
it's been a while since i read ron's articles that discussed the compounding effect water changes had on toxic metals in a reef tank but both he and rhf have written some great stuff on the topic. i do remember that they strongly disagreed on a few points.
:lol:
Yes, we did.
When I pointed out that Instant Ocean had less copper than my tank in my own carefully done tests, and so every water change MUST lower it, I was simply accused of not seeing the forest for the trees.
:lol:
Yes, we did.
When I pointed out that Instant Ocean had less copper than my tank in my own carefully done tests, and so every water change MUST lower it, I was simply accused of not seeing the forest for the trees.
miwoodar
Likey the bikey
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13525482#post13525482 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by porthios
2) replenishes trace elemants
That is my primary reason for continuing to support water changes.
oh man. anyone but you mike! lol. please take this in the tongue in cheek manner i intend..
every time i hear the phrase 'trace elements' i want to beat the speaker to a bloody pulp with whatever brightly colored bottle they're trying to sell me. we speak of them as if they're some magical ingredient that can only be replenished through a fresh infusion of our artificial salt mixes. forgetting of course, all the 'elements' we add in the form of food, impurities in our supplements, substrate, etc..
it's been a while since i read ron's articles that discussed the compounding effect water changes had on toxic metals in a reef tank but both he and rhf have written some great stuff on the topic. i do remember that they strongly disagreed on a few points.
my point is yes, there are elements that break down, get used up, or otherwise become unavailable to a system over time. but there are also elements present in our salt mixes that accumulate and are toxic to several of the organisms we like to keep. so a water change's net impact on the health of our systems may or may not have a beneficial effect on the concentration of our 'trace elements'.
until we can identify, measure and dose the required elements for maintaining our favored organisms we're really just guessing about the reasons for the efficacy of our husbandry choice to change the damn water. don't pretend you have any idea what you're doing.
if you do water changes to replace trace elements fine.. but at least don the bone necklace, feathers, fur pouches and medicine staff appropriate for the voodoo ritual you're about to perform.
:lol: No, I never said I keep up with water changes. :lol:
I just said that the only reason I continue to support them is for trace element replenishment. I quit buying magic potion bottles about ten years ago so water changes are the only way I'm going to replenish those things that I am not testing/dosing for. But alas, my water change bucket is dryer and dustier than most.
BTW - I think I've read Ron's article that is being discussed. For that reason I was actually concerned of certain things getting too high in my tank in 2007/2008. Water changes are still the solution.
StupidsReef
Premium Member
This I find this to be an interesting topic. I'd like to chime in with a question.
I do a water change about once a month, I shoot for about 20%. Now I don't always do it once a month, I admit sometimes I tend to forget too. I try to do the 20% once a month, due to the fact that just about every book or anyone you ask say's 20% once a month or 10% every two weeks. Never the less, their's a number located with a time frame. Which this thread leads me to the questions:
How did we come to that figure??
How did we come to the calculation of any given certain amount within any certain given time frame??
I understand the replenishing part. Calcium, Alk & Mag. I understand that certain chemical's are depleted/used buy coral and most of us strive to keep them at a certain level. By testing one would find how much of this is used, therefor how much to replace. Beings each system is unique like every human is. With that thought process how did we establish that each tank needs the same amount at the same time frame??
I'm not disputing the water change, just wondering I guess. With a 225g tank & and 100g sump, I'm about 300 total volume. So I should be doing about a 60g NSW change every month. I only do a 55g NSW change as that's the size of my drum.
But another issue brought up here was the fact that the skimmer doesn't pull only fresh water out. I recently had to run a very wet skimmate and noticed my SG dropped. I use a RHS-10ATC refractometer and use the 53.oms calibration fluid from American Marine Inc. Beings I'm a bubbling fool I have to calibrate it more often, I seem to bump the adjusting nob on the top and then well you know...it's off.
So in theory, through other means like skimmer's, testing, pruning of cheato/macroalgea's and my arms in the tank more than they should be
, even though it's a small amount I notice I have to top off sometimes with NSW just to keep the SG @ 1.026. I like to keep it a little higher than the recommend 1.023.
So is it just a generalization of a certain amount in a certain time frame that we are going by?? Just curious.
Stu.
I do a water change about once a month, I shoot for about 20%. Now I don't always do it once a month, I admit sometimes I tend to forget too. I try to do the 20% once a month, due to the fact that just about every book or anyone you ask say's 20% once a month or 10% every two weeks. Never the less, their's a number located with a time frame. Which this thread leads me to the questions:
How did we come to that figure??
How did we come to the calculation of any given certain amount within any certain given time frame??
I understand the replenishing part. Calcium, Alk & Mag. I understand that certain chemical's are depleted/used buy coral and most of us strive to keep them at a certain level. By testing one would find how much of this is used, therefor how much to replace. Beings each system is unique like every human is. With that thought process how did we establish that each tank needs the same amount at the same time frame??
I'm not disputing the water change, just wondering I guess. With a 225g tank & and 100g sump, I'm about 300 total volume. So I should be doing about a 60g NSW change every month. I only do a 55g NSW change as that's the size of my drum.
But another issue brought up here was the fact that the skimmer doesn't pull only fresh water out. I recently had to run a very wet skimmate and noticed my SG dropped. I use a RHS-10ATC refractometer and use the 53.oms calibration fluid from American Marine Inc. Beings I'm a bubbling fool I have to calibrate it more often, I seem to bump the adjusting nob on the top and then well you know...it's off.
So in theory, through other means like skimmer's, testing, pruning of cheato/macroalgea's and my arms in the tank more than they should be
, even though it's a small amount I notice I have to top off sometimes with NSW just to keep the SG @ 1.026. I like to keep it a little higher than the recommend 1.023. So is it just a generalization of a certain amount in a certain time frame that we are going by?? Just curious.
Stu.
StupidsReef
Premium Member
Something tells me that Randy will reply with a link to an article that explains this :lol: As I'm sure these question have been presented already and there is an explanation to my aimlessly ponder's
Something tells me that Randy will reply with a link to an article that explains this As I'm sure these question have been presented already and there is an explanation to my aimlessly ponder's
:lol:
Well, those recommendations were in place decades ago before I started in the hobby, but I do show what different size changes done in different ways can attain in this article:
Water Changes in Reef Aquaria
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-10/rhf/index.php
:lol:
Well, those recommendations were in place decades ago before I started in the hobby, but I do show what different size changes done in different ways can attain in this article:
Water Changes in Reef Aquaria
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-10/rhf/index.php
StupidsReef
Premium Member
The drive to have a nice looking tank & fish reminds me to keep up the water changes. Even if I'm not right on time with them, I still do them. Then again, I've never went a long amount of time without doing one, so I can't say that idea doesn't work.
captstinky
New member
I have a 10g frag tank, I couldn't recall the last water change. I do remove water and add fresh top off, as the salinity creeps up from Bionic additives. Powerheads provide the current. I use rubble as a substrate, and plenum and no filter. The tank is fed heavily to get the coral cuttings,mostly xenia, to grow faster. This tank produces so many 'pods, it is distracting from the live stock.
I used to have a 120 with a DSB and a Ecosystem refugium. It was a while ago, but I don't remember doing water changes on a regular basis. After around 2 1/2 years (I think it was) the bristleworm population just exploded. I decided to consolidate two tanks into a 180. When I took the 120 down the sand stunk so bad I could barely stand it.
The 180 is barebottom and there is no refugium - no sand. I run a big skimmer and run carbon. If I don't do a water change every 3 weeks the SPS starts to suffer (even more than it already is). I have to do a 15-20% water change every 3 weeks. I change carbon out at 3 weeks as well. I am going to look into adding on a refugium since the current method isn't quite working out the way I would like it to. Mushrooms and Kenya tree grow out of control. But SPS don't do so well. 3 x 400W 14K metal halides. All parameters are great except for phosphates - those are too high for the SPS.
The 180 is barebottom and there is no refugium - no sand. I run a big skimmer and run carbon. If I don't do a water change every 3 weeks the SPS starts to suffer (even more than it already is). I have to do a 15-20% water change every 3 weeks. I change carbon out at 3 weeks as well. I am going to look into adding on a refugium since the current method isn't quite working out the way I would like it to. Mushrooms and Kenya tree grow out of control. But SPS don't do so well. 3 x 400W 14K metal halides. All parameters are great except for phosphates - those are too high for the SPS.
I had a 125 gallon reef tank. I was lazy so only did maybe 25 gallon water changes once every 8 months or so.
Power compact lighting
DSB 6" in the back, 4" in the front
400+lbs of live rock
Had softies, anemone's, monti caps, 30+ fish.
Very heavy bio-load.
My sump was covered in sponges and filter feeders?
Had a lot of bristol worms & also a ton of brittle stars.
Year 4 I started to have problems with too much ditruis.
But I probably went over a year w/out a water change at that point.
All I would do is add RO/DI water to cover the evaporation. When the corals started looking bad I would test the salinity and ususally it was on the high side. So I would remove about 10-15 gallons and replenish with RO water.
Had the anenomes for 5 years and they split 6+ times.
Clown fish would breed all the time.
Phosphates were an issue so I added phosband reactor and that took care of that problem.
Also had a Refugium with Chaeto on reverse light cycle.
No carbon, just a sump w/ a sock that I only replaced when the flow of water would come up to the sock. Meaning it was really saturated.
Whenever I would remove the sock it was always covered in pods.
Would suppliment w/ additives when I had time. Maybe once every month - 2 months.
Mangnesium, Kalk, iodine, storum? All that crap.
lol
Power compact lighting
DSB 6" in the back, 4" in the front
400+lbs of live rock
Had softies, anemone's, monti caps, 30+ fish.
Very heavy bio-load.
My sump was covered in sponges and filter feeders?
Had a lot of bristol worms & also a ton of brittle stars.
Year 4 I started to have problems with too much ditruis.
But I probably went over a year w/out a water change at that point.
All I would do is add RO/DI water to cover the evaporation. When the corals started looking bad I would test the salinity and ususally it was on the high side. So I would remove about 10-15 gallons and replenish with RO water.
Had the anenomes for 5 years and they split 6+ times.
Clown fish would breed all the time.
Phosphates were an issue so I added phosband reactor and that took care of that problem.
Also had a Refugium with Chaeto on reverse light cycle.
No carbon, just a sump w/ a sock that I only replaced when the flow of water would come up to the sock. Meaning it was really saturated.
Whenever I would remove the sock it was always covered in pods.
Would suppliment w/ additives when I had time. Maybe once every month - 2 months.
Mangnesium, Kalk, iodine, storum? All that crap.
lol
Im wondering if anyone actualy needs to do waterchanges if they have 0 nitrates and phosphate readings, run carbon, add trace elements etc.
That's a fair question, but I'd ask how you'd know what trace elements to add and how much.
What about removing those that are building up?
The beauty of a water change is that you only need to know that your starting salt mix is OK, not what is present in the tank over time.
That's a fair question, but I'd ask how you'd know what trace elements to add and how much.
What about removing those that are building up?
The beauty of a water change is that you only need to know that your starting salt mix is OK, not what is present in the tank over time.
I did some tests on trace elements maybe 2-3 times a year?
I know Iodine can build up so I would ad very little.
You can tell when things are wrong by just looking at the tank. OOh I also used to turkey baste the rocks if they look like they had build up of ditrius.
Also had a cucumber.
That is really it. It was pretty much low maintence.
Look at the video called "Sump Concept" it is towards the top.
It is an interesting video and he explains how the tank "self cleans"
http://www.reefvideos.com/
I know Iodine can build up so I would ad very little.
You can tell when things are wrong by just looking at the tank. OOh I also used to turkey baste the rocks if they look like they had build up of ditrius.
Also had a cucumber.
That is really it. It was pretty much low maintence.
Look at the video called "Sump Concept" it is towards the top.
It is an interesting video and he explains how the tank "self cleans"
http://www.reefvideos.com/
I did some tests on trace elements maybe 2-3 times a year?
How did you do that?
How did you do that?
