Losing hope..

[Cliving1]

So I started my 80 gallon deep blue rimless tank with 20 gallon sump in August. I have taken things slower (as far as introducing livestock) than I ever have. The tank has ~100 lbs of rock (20 live, and 80 in dry as of August). I have 3 powerheads, 2 at 1600gph and 1 at 500. I am new to the quarantine aspect, and was going to try the TTM on my newest addition. I just posted a thread regarding my brother bringing me a flameback angel for thanksgiving who ate for a few days, and had odd behavior yesterday. Well I found his body when I came home from work. Currently I have 1 blue damsel, 2 yellowtail damsels and a yellow chromis (or damsel not sure) and I obviously did not quarantine as I mentioned I was trying for the first time above. Other than that there are snails and a few frags (zoa, star coral, kenya tree, purple mushroom). I tested my water, and so has my local store here are my levels (temp is today's reading):
Salt 1.025
Ammonia -0
PH-8.2
Nitrite-0
Nitrate-5
Temp - 78.4

I do not see any signs of ich or any other disease (even though I have not used a quarantine setup). I examine every fish that I lost.. to this date 2. One bicolor blenny who jumped after a week, and the angel. And if it was some disease wouldnt my other fish be affected? I am at the point where I have invested a lot of my money and time into this new tank and quite frankly my brother (who has had tanks longer than me), lfs (I hope has had tanks longer than both of us) cannot figure out whats going on. I mean I am not introducing a large fish or something that should never have been introduced...

I guess I am losing hope on having anything other than these damsels (which are ok and have nice colors/personality) but really bought this tank to have something other than damsels. Nothing to say against damsels, but I just want a small kole tang, or angel/wrasse at some point. Again, if I did not mention, I know the tank is young but I just need some uplifting advice from the folks on this forum. How (other than obviously setting up a quarantine) can I stop losing fish!! (especially with some already living in there)

 

[Deftones2015]

I have lost fish from stores, mostly petco, for no apparent reason. They seem healthy and are eating, then I find them dead the next day. Sometimes it just happens, but that's just my opinion. There are so many factors that can come into play from diseases to acclimation method etc. I would just keep moving forward, your water parameters seem perfectly fine to me. Keep ur head up, sometimes you will lose fish and have no clue how or why.

 

[Cliving1]

Thanks bud, I will post pics tomorrow (lights are off for the night). I am overall happy with the tank, but I cant stand losing fish/coral. It is very upsetting. One of the reasons I added a few frags (originally was going to do fowlr), was that one can usually tell water quality/changes by the corals response. Maybe I will take some time off before introducing anything else and just focus on water quality and maybe its just a bad string of luck. Appreciate the support.

 

[gone fishin]

Any chance of aggression or chasing from the damsels?

 

[droog]

Agree with post above. Sounds like you're doing everything tight. Some of these fish are very stressed already by the time they reach you. A few ideas you might want to try

1] Acclimating - match salinity to your LFS water. If their water is 1.025 have a tank between 1.024 and 1.026 ready for the fish. Float the bag for 30mins. As soon as you open the bag, drain the water and move fish into new tank.

Long and drip acclimation can stress and kill fish. As soon as you open the bag it becomes a toxic ammonia bath. Get your new fish out of there asap

2] When introducing to DT do so around light out, or turn the lights off for a day. (I feed the fish first too, but not sure if that helps or not)

Damsels can be mean. I returned mine to the LFS and replaced with cardinalfish during a tank move.

My female clownfish (they are also damsels) it a biter. She drew blood this week when I put by hand into the tank to rescue a fallen coral. Talk about biting the hand that feeds you...!


-droog

 

[Shewillbemine]

I'm not trying to sound mean but this was only one fish yes? You'll be fine. Just make sure your water is ok and I bet the next fish you put in there will be alright. Sometimes you can't even kill some of these things! j/k

 

[CStrickland]

Any chance of aggression or chasing from the damsels?

+1 also, do you have a screen or lid over the tank to keep the fish in it?

 

[Cliving1]

The yellowtails are about .25-.5", very small. The blue is larger (maybe 1") and probably the dominant in the tank..However I would not call him aggressive. No fins are nipped, just the typical, "hey this is my spot go away" and everything is over. When I put both the blenny and the angel in they were by far the most dominant in the tank.

As far as acclimation goes I only shoot for 30 mins max. My biggest problem is the lfs keeps his salt at 1.020 or so. It has been a question of mine why it is so low..but thats for another day. I always acclimate with lights off, but who knows...

I dont have a lid-I know how dumb but I have been looking at eggcrate or possible some sort of mesh/screen. I was also contemplating getting a piece of plexiglass cut for the top and putting in small ledges for it to set on.

Ah I guess I am going through the early tank blues or something. My financial adviser is not keen on me spending $ on nice fish that she likes, and then they dont live (nor do I).

 

[gone fishin]

Did both fish come from the same LFS? Could just be a bit of bad luck.

Most LFS keep salinity low to save money on salt.

 

[droog]

Sounds like the damsels are innocent in which case the acclimation process may be a factor. 30 mins in an "ammonia bath" going from 1.020 to 1.025 sounds stressful. If its possible I'd look for another LFS.

Its cheaper for the LFS to use less salt...

-droog

 

[e048]

Damsels killed it

 

[Cliving1]

No, only the blenny did. The other store I tried, closest besides 2 hour drive, tanks were infected with ich. All fish were scratching and not looking good I immediately left and stuck with the store I go to now. My brother brought the angel up from Miami for turkey day gift. I dont have other local stores, the others are 2 hours + away, but I guess that could be an option. LOL e048, damsels are not the culprit where is your evidence!

 

[edinphilly]

The salinity thing is an issue. Going from the LFS water to yours can kill the fish. Learned that the hard way myself. That's quite a jump from 1.020 to 1.025. I would do a longer drip acclimation. Plenty of info on here or google for that. You can use prime to neutralize ammonia in the drip bucket so no harm going slow.

Also, don't put any LFS water in your tank. Chances are they run it with some copper which would be bad for coral and inverts.

 

[gone fishin]

I would highly suggest making a screen top. That will at least limit the carpet surfers. As far as the Angel you may not really ever know the cause. I am sure everyone at some point has lost a fish mysteriously. I have and it is a bummer but kind of comes with the territory.

I would also suggest going forward with setting up a QT. I find it easier to catch problems and to get fish comfortable with what I am feeding. IMO it also allows them to recover from being caught and moved so many times, usually in a short period of time.

Try not to get to down.

 

[Cliving1]

Yeah I think I have to take another look at my quarantine/acclimation procedure. I guess I could ask the local store if they do anything like that, no harm there. I will do some more reading and do what I can to improve. Thank you everyone for being so positive about my experience. I think getting a lid (or some sort of a lid) will also help. I will post pics soon..as long as I don't work extra again tomorrow (stupid salary).

Gone fishin- do you know what kind of screen would be appropriate? I almost though of a screen door type mesh, but assume there are oils or something on there that could drip. I also thought about plexi glass similar to what innovative tanks have on some of their's that sit on small ledges.

 

[gone fishin]

look on BRS they have clear 1/4inch mesh. Then you can get a window screen frame kit from Depot or someplace like that. Takes about 20 minutes to put one together.


I don't care for plexi I found it to warp over time.

 

[CStrickland]

this is a standard screen top http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/diy-aquarium-screen-top-kits-1-4-netting.html but you can copy it out of stuff from home depot if your diy

There's a big diff between driving home from the lfs and and driving up from miami. When I have fish overnighted from online sellers its a much more careful acclimation cause of how fast stuff builds up in the bag. Or it mightve been something else entirely.

Your QT system is up to you, but an upside to going 72 days fallow to clear any ich from the dt is that you can restock your tank in order from least to most aggressive when the time comes. That will help with any territory issues.

chin up, it happens to everyone <3

 

[Cliving1]

hmm.. 20 minutes I can do that! Haha. Yeah my Dad used to use plexi glass and warned me of the same thing. thanks for the advice I will take a look, as well as at the link.

Yeah I mean he might not have done the best job, but the store there packed it as if they were shipping across the US, so who am I to judge lol.

I guess I could tear down the rock to get the damsels out and at least guarantee myself of that problem...but if there are fish in there now wouldn't they have been killed off by ich?

Yes, I guess I need to be more positive, no one needs to read a title like "losing hope.." haha

 

[Sk8r]

Yellowtails are fairly mild-mannered. I do note you didn't list alkalinity, which is important. It's probably fine, to judge by the ph, and my real suspicion is either an acclimation problem or a fish that arrived with a problem. It happens, which is why we advocate quarantine of every fish and dipping of all corals. These fish are generally wild-caught and passed through a distribution system which tries to limit disease and parasites, but far more arrive with problems than I used to see in the hobby.

 

[Cliving1]

No I did not list alk.. I dont test for it nor does the lfs. Just as a dumb question, does that affect coral/fish or both? I assume both but would like to be sure. I know I have not been in the "game" for a long time but my dad had tanks since the 70's and I did not hear of quarantining until a few months ago when I found Reef central. Maybe I am a step behind.