lost battle with neomeris

NaClH2O Getaway

NaClH2O Getaway

Member
After 2 years battling an invasive outbreak of Neomeris Annualata, I believe I have lost the battle or at least have lost the will to fight any longer. I have been asking for ideas on here and other places and tried every one of them short of microwaving my rocks. (Starvation, Manual removal, Changing lights, Photo times, Natural predators, Chemicals, Refugium, Turning off lights and covering glass, More manual removal, Water tests, Water changes, Full water changes, GFO, Carbon, Phospads, Phosphate resins, More manual removal and More water changes, changed waterflow, tried three different skimmers, Salt changes. more water tests, removed everything and dried it out in the CA sun for months and recently a half gallon of 35% H2O2 run system wide for an hour that pretty much cleared out everything living in my tank including the neo......... for 2 weeks :facepalm: ) every test shows ideal par! I don't know where its coming from and I cant afford to scrap everything and start over.

Has anyone on here successfully sterilized or bleached rock/ sand? Not just dried out (tried that) but literally bleached it to the point of 100% sterile. Then restarted the tank without leaching chlorine or anything back into the system. If I cant figure out a way to do it i just may throw in the towel and admit my defeat.

I'm going to post in a few other forums here in hopes of collectively finding a solution.
 
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So can you brief me on your situation. Everything my friend google shows me says it is good and has a short life span.
 
ChrisKirkland said:
So can you brief me on your situation. Everything my friend google shows me says it is good and has a short life span.
Click to expand...

Short story: a few years ago this started as a few "kinda cool" looking stalks of neon green things. A Lil research (possibly through your friend google) told me the same thing. No one that I talked to had ever had a problem or even heard of it. Some people begged me for some while others "wished they had my problem" so I let it ride. Fast forward to today. The stuff covers every visible part of my rockscape, powerheads, sandbed, living corals, hermit shells, just everything. It shades any coral i have from the light it needs and absorbs calcium that my sps lps and coraline should be getting Whatever I did to let this stuff get a foot hold, I can't seem to undo. I later find out that it reproduces via spores so by this time it has seeped in and embedded within every possible depth of sandbed and rock crevice avail. Nothing I have done has slowed its return and apparently it can lay dormant even in a dry state. I wouldnt say it has a short lifespan unless 2+ years is considered short. I thought maybe I could let it bloom then die off and I was completely wrong.

If anyone knows a scientist or biologist that would like my setup I will be more than happy to part with it! Hahahaha
 
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Muriatic acid. Be careful, but it will work. Hardware stores have it for taking grout haze off new tile.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
 
Well, I don't know if you've tried this yet...

How about those huge Ziplock Storage Bags + A Deep Freezer. I don't know of any plants that can survive a hard freeze.

http://www.ziploc.com/Products/Pages/BigBags.aspx
Ziploc_big_bags_lrg.jpg


http://www.ajmadison.com/cgi-bin/ajmadison/
r36638v-1.jpg
 
Three little letters cured my problem. A. T. S.!! I was going through EXACTLY the same problem with this stuff. I was keeping it in check with manual removal... a LOT of manual removal. I started reading up on the benefits of an ATS in the thread pinned to the Advance Topics forum. I pulled the trigger and built one. All total I have about $100 invested in mine, with the LED's. This thing has changed my entire tank. No more of this stuff, no more turf algea, no more bubble and valonia! I even took my skimmer off-line and had my first light bill under $100 in years. I'm completely sold on this method of filtration. I have even reduced my water changes from 30 gallons twice a month to maybe 20 once a month. And I honestly think I could cut down to once every 2 months, or more. My tank is actually enjoyable again. It hasn't been for a very long time. Even my corals are liking the new way. I have much better growth, color, and polyp extension. Try it. You're at the point of nothing to loose.
 
Yes, and Algae Turf Scrubber would be a better long term solution to out compete for the extra nutrients. I think that would be the best route.
 
Yes an ATS would do the trick, just read you tread and I have one those neomeris in my tank, I think I will take it out since reading your tread, but the only different with the one I got and I only have one is that I have an ATS that I been running since day one on this tank and the neomeris has not spread. And this tank has been up since Feb. I also have a 135 that use to have GHA until I put the ATS on it also and the GHA problem went away.
 
Plants have life stages that can survive freezing, like seeds and spores.

ATS's don't fix the problem. They just move the problem. If you can get it to move at all once it is established as well as you say yours is.

Muriatic acid will remove the whole problem. It not only kills the algae, but it also removes the phosphate from the rock that was fueling the algae growth in the first place. The bath itself only takes about five minutes. Then a good rinsing, maybe a soak for about 24 hours, another good rinsing, and you're ready to start cycling your tank with fresh clean rock, and a new start.

To rid the rock of the phosphate that's causing your problem, through "natural", or "biological" means, you'll be doing a lot of this :headwally: for a llllloooonnnnggggg time to come. Like you have been doing.

Now's the time to start removing crap from the system, and cleaning things up. It's not the time to spend more money and add more crap to the system. You've been doing that for how long now, and it hasn't worked.

Personally, I'd trash the sand you have now and run the system sandless for a while. At least long enough for the tank to mature and stabilize a bit. This just makes it easier to keep the tank clean while it matures. Once the tank becomes stable and healthy, I'd start thinking about adding new clean sand.

Good luck with this problem, and I hope you can put it behind you soon.
EC
 
mtrcyclefish said:
Skip the deep freeze. Why take down you're whole tank for that. The ATS will work. Give it a try
Click to expand...

I like ATS's. If it was my tank that's where I'd start too.

elegance coral said:
Plants have life stages that can survive freezing, like seeds and spores.
Click to expand...

I know of some land plant's (tree's) that will survive a freeze; But I don't know of any marine plants that can survive a freeze. Do you?

elegance coral said:
ATS's don't fix the problem. They just move the problem. If you can get it to move at all once it is established as well as you say yours is.

Muriatic acid will remove the whole problem. It not only kills the algae, but it also removes the phosphate from the rock that was fueling the algae growth in the first place. The bath itself only takes about five minutes. Then a good rinsing, maybe a soak for about 24 hours, another good rinsing, and you're ready to start cycling your tank with fresh clean rock, and a new start.
......
Good luck with this problem, and I hope you can put it behind you soon.
EC
Click to expand...

Yeah, I like this idea, and I would try it, but it is still an acid and you have to be careful. It's a better solution I think, but it's not as safe as an ATS or freezing the rock.
 
Thanx EC

I've been getting this acid treatment across the other threads I've started on a couple other forums as well. I don't know the exact purpose of the "ATS" but I do know that after researching this stuff actively for the last couple years, it is not like your typical "plant" or Algae that thrives on the phosphates and waste nutrients in the water. It is actually only found in pretty pristine "acro type" waters, high in light and calcium just in the right combination and because I have absolutely no other algae, I find it tough to believe it's purely phosphate driven. I had 6 fish that I underfed only 2 times a week and a skimmer rated for a tank 3 times the size of my tank..IMO bioload is not an issue in this case. I'm not saying that any phosphates I have aren't contributing but I do know that I have tried A LOT and a combination of several phosphate treatments and this stuff never blinked.

In the grand scheme of things I think the clean slate IS really the way to go. I have too many variables and no patience for more things that "might" work after trying so many "only sure solutions" for the past 2 years
 
SoLiD said:
I know of some land plant's (tree's) that will survive a freeze; But I don't know of any marine plants that can survive a freeze. Do you?
Click to expand...

Here's a study done on marine algae tolerance to freezing.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...otjrBg&usg=AFQjCNHO2ZSMJfiNZtU0VDWbUmv_I08pTA


Another study regarding algae and freezing.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...otjrBg&usg=AFQjCNHu_wDJf4QPCV4qtm43Z6h_3w9Rmg

Quote from the link;
"Cells of marine algae, having a high resistance
to plasmolysis were also highly resistant to freezing"
 
NaClH2O Getaway said:
Thanx EC

I've been getting this acid treatment across the other threads I've started on a couple other forums as well. I don't know the exact purpose of the "ATS" but I do know that after researching this stuff actively for the last couple years, it is not like your typical "plant" or Algae that thrives on the phosphates and waste nutrients in the water. It is actually only found in pretty pristine "acro type" waters, high in light and calcium just in the right combination and because I have absolutely no other algae, I find it tough to believe it's purely phosphate driven. I had 6 fish that I underfed only 2 times a week and a skimmer rated for a tank 3 times the size of my tank..IMO bioload is not an issue in this case. I'm not saying that any phosphates I have aren't contributing but I do know that I have tried A LOT and a combination of several phosphate treatments and this stuff never blinked.
Click to expand...

I agree with everything you just said.

The problem with Neomeris annualata, and other algae like it, is that they create their own micro nutrient cycle. They aren't as dependent on dissolved nutrients in the open water as some other algae like phyto, chaeto, or caulerpa. When Neomeris annualata grows in colonies, it acts as a mechanical filter trapping solid particles. Similar to filter feeders like feather dusters, feather stars, barnacles, and sea fans. As water moves through a fuzzy colony of Neomeris annualata it slows down. This allows tiny particles of suspended organic mater to get stuck and fall out of suspension and down in between the strands of algae. This organic matter accumulates, rots, and releases nutrients like nitrogen and phosphorus. Just like the organic matter in a compost pile does. If you dig down between the strands of Neomeris annualata, you're likely to find detritus, which is the rotting organic matter that has accumulated there. Much of the phosphate that is released from this rotting organic matter is then able to adsorb onto the surface of the calcium carbonate/live rock. As with any community of living organisms there will be a cycle of death and rebirth. As one strand of this algae dies, it falls down between the living strand where it rots, releases the nutrients it contains, and fuels new growth. All of this rotting organic matter, and phosphate adsorbed onto the LR, creates a reservoir of nutrients to support the algae. You can spend months, or years, fighting dissolved nutrients in the open water of the system, and have little to no noticeable effect on the growth of algae like this, because it isn't very dependent on those nutrients. The algae is living on top of a huge nutrient reservoir. To have a meaningful impact, you'll need to attack this nutrient source. Things like phosphate media, skimming, water changes, and especially ATS's, will have little effect on this algae. As you have seen for yourself. ATS's may actually fuel more growth of algae like Neomeris annualata. Algae fragments and cells will be washed off the ATS and flow through the system. Like any other particles, they can become trapped in the colony of Neomeris annualata, where they will rot, release nutrients, and fuel more Neomeris annualata growth.

WOW that was a long post.:wildone: Hope it helped.:lmao:
Peace
EC
 
elegance coral said:
I agree with everything you just said.

The problem with Neomeris annualata, and other algae like it, is that they create their own micro nutrient cycle. They aren't as dependent on dissolved nutrients in the open water as some other algae like phyto, chaeto, or caulerpa. When Neomeris annualata grows in colonies, it acts as a mechanical filter trapping solid particles. Similar to filter feeders like feather dusters, feather stars, barnacles, and sea fans. As water moves through a fuzzy colony of Neomeris annualata it slows down. This allows tiny particles of suspended organic mater to get stuck and fall out of suspension and down in between the strands of algae. This organic matter accumulates, rots, and releases nutrients like nitrogen and phosphorus. Just like the organic matter in a compost pile does. If you dig down between the strands of Neomeris annualata, you're likely to find detritus, which is the rotting organic matter that has accumulated there.
Click to expand...

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!!

Finally! I have been gathering info about this stuff from the minute I found the first one in my tank and everything you just wrote is what I can't quite explain to anyone. So I'm not crazy afterall! While I appreciate most of the feedback I get, I hate not being able to explain to people just how crazy this stuff has gone in my tank. I am bombarded with people telling me that its "nothing to worry about" or "there's no way it can be that bad because it just doesn't survive in our hobby" even when I share pics I get "whats the problem? it looks cool", "I wish I could grow that in my tank". and I agree! It DOES look cool! Its nuclear green and bleach white, sways with the water flow and grows well with the cool little fuzzy end............Of course I haven't seen my Acros, Richordeas, Zoas, Acans Chalices, Palys or any other coral that I've spent thousands of dollars for in years! All of a sudden, Not So Cool!!! ok done ranting:lolspin: but again Thank you! I believe your post hit the nail on the head and I appreciate the insight.
 
elegance coral said:
I agree with everything you just said.

The problem with Neomeris annualata, and other algae like it, is that they create their own micro nutrient cycle. They aren't as dependent on dissolved nutrients in the open water as some other algae like phyto, chaeto, or caulerpa. When Neomeris annualata grows in colonies, it acts as a mechanical filter trapping solid particles. Similar to filter feeders like feather dusters, feather stars, barnacles, and sea fans. As water moves through a fuzzy colony of Neomeris annualata it slows down. This allows tiny particles of suspended organic mater to get stuck and fall out of suspension and down in between the strands of algae. This organic matter accumulates, rots, and releases nutrients like nitrogen and phosphorus. Just like the organic matter in a compost pile does. If you dig down between the strands of Neomeris annualata, you're likely to find detritus, which is the rotting organic matter that has accumulated there. Much of the phosphate that is released from this rotting organic matter is then able to adsorb onto the surface of the calcium carbonate/live rock. As with any community of living organisms there will be a cycle of death and rebirth. As one strand of this algae dies, it falls down between the living strand where it rots, releases the nutrients it contains, and fuels new growth. All of this rotting organic matter, and phosphate adsorbed onto the LR, creates a reservoir of nutrients to support the algae. You can spend months, or years, fighting dissolved nutrients in the open water of the system, and have little to no noticeable effect on the growth of algae like this, because it isn't very dependent on those nutrients. The algae is living on top of a huge nutrient reservoir. To have a meaningful impact, you'll need to attack this nutrient source. Things like phosphate media, skimming, water changes, and especially ATS's, will have little effect on this algae. As you have seen for yourself. ATS's may actually fuel more growth of algae like Neomeris annualata. Algae fragments and cells will be washed off the ATS and flow through the system. Like any other particles, they can become trapped in the colony of Neomeris annualata, where they will rot, release nutrients, and fuel more Neomeris annualata growth.

WOW that was a long post.:wildone: Hope it helped.:lmao:
Peace
EC
Click to expand...

That is some resourceful information EC. Thank you for sharing with the community. And for the record, an ATS would be the worst route to go at this point in his aquaria based on the information he's been giving for 2+ years.
 
That is some resourceful information EC. Thank you for sharing with the community. And for the record, an ATS would be the worst route to go at this point in his aquariabasedon the information he's been givingfor2+ years.
Click to expand...

How could an ATS be the worst route to go? Any algea growing in our tanks is a good thing. Unfortunately, it looks terrible. Why not give it an ideal place to grow where it won't be seen, and therefore prevent it from growing where you don't want it? Anyone who believes in the effectivness of using cheato believes this. An ATS just does it much better.

As someone stated earlier, this algae prefers extremely "clean" systems. Cut back on the skimming and add an ATS and your system will get "dirtier". And your corals will love it! The nuisance algae will die off.

How can you possibly advise someone to take such a drastic measures as soaking their very expensive rocks in acid when something so simple could help him? Have you ever even had an ATS on your system? The simplicity itself makes it well worth it.

My problem with this stuff was every bit as bad as yours, if not worse. My ATS has been up for almost 3 months. I shut down my skimmer and removed all gfo when I put the ATS in. I now have literally about 3 stalks of this stuff left in my entire system.
 
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