Low PH and high KH at a loss

[Rudimenta]

Mangroves are in the display.

What readings are you not sure about? You want me to buy a 5th ph reader?

I hardly have a day night swing. The sump is in the back, so hard to create something like that. With the mangroves. Thinking of increasing the water volume by building an extra ref/sump.

Corals are really picking up now under the vodka dosing, they seem to not worry much about the low ph. But yeah it's not long term.

As for my apt, no construction close by, I have a top floor corner. So the air flows nicely through. Even my ac intakes are nicely located. The is not much traffic around here.

The PH of my RO/DI is actually higher then my tank, I just tested, the RO/Di was not fresh.

 

[bertoni]

If you took a cup of water outside, and aerated it for three hours, maybe with a small pump, and the pH didn't reach something like 8.3, then either the alkalinity level is far from accurate or the pH measurement is wrong. I'm not sure which.

The pH of RO/DI water is hard to measure accurately, and it's irrelevant, anyway, since it has no buffering capacity.

 

[agruetz]

if you took a cup of water outside, and aerated it for three hours, maybe with a small pump, and the ph didn't reach something like 8.3, then either the alkalinity level is far from accurate or the ph measurement is wrong. I'm not sure which.

The ph of ro/di water is hard to measure accurately, and it's irrelevant, anyway, since it has no buffering capacity.

+1

 

[Rudimenta]

Well i did the cup outside test again, two times one for about 2 hours and one overnight. The rise in PH was 0.2.

If i disregard my color test. Could the PH be right its just that some electrical interference (stray voltage) is making all electronic devices read low?

 

[Rudimenta]

For the tank, all parameters are back to normal besides a high dkh.

Should i give kalkwasser another try?
Today:
Mg currently 1320
Calcium 420
dKH 12.2
NH3-4 0
NO2 0
NO3 5
PO4 0.02

Or how about baking soda/washing soda?

 

[bertoni]

I'd guess there's some sort of measurement problem with pH. Electrical interference seems fairly common. I would ignore those numbers for now.

I'd let the dKH drop to 8 or 9, and start dosing at that point. Either Kalkwasser or baking soda should be fine. If you dose baking soda, at some point, you'll likely need to dose some calcium chloride, too.

 

[Rudimenta]

Can anybody let me know, if baking soda/washing soda has less effect on Calcium then Kalkwasser?

My calcium/dKH just gets too high with the Kalk dripping. Stopped Kalk dripping 2 days ago again....

Last night i had the door (which is in the shade but next to the tank) open all night with the lid also open and an extra fan placed over the tank and PH was even lower then the day before.

 

[YoungREEFA]

Ill just suggest driping call 24 hours a day

 

[cjcolvin]

Can anybody let me know, if baking soda/washing soda has less effect on Calcium then Kalkwasser?

My calcium/dKH just gets too high with the Kalk dripping. Stopped Kalk dripping 2 days ago again....

Last night i had the door (which is in the shade but next to the tank) open all night with the lid also open and an extra fan placed over the tank and PH was even lower then the day before.

Baking soad is Sodium Bicarbonate, thus no calcium. Kalk is Calcium Hydroxide. Might try dosing baking soda. This will raise your pH but not sure if it will have any ill effects on livestock.

 

[Rudimenta]

Well well, i think i found part of the problem. My Apex is monitoring saltilinity, i had one of those plastic checkers as backup. Turns out both are way off (apex mostly) so i had 1.030 to 1.031 when i checked with a refractometer. I dont know how much this is the cuase of the health and problems of the aquarium but i have a sneaky suspicion this bothers the livestock more then PH. Slowly adjusting back to normal salt levels, i hope the PH recovers also and they are related.

 

[Rudimenta]

3 hrs and corals immediately looking much better, PH also raise by 0.2 already, by this time tomorrow I hope to be on a good saltelinity level

 

[eyesinthedrk]

from this thread a couple weeks ago http://reefcentral.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=21917497

That buffering action works both ways. People always seem to get it into their head that high alkalinity goes with high pH. That's not it. High alkalinity goes with STABLE pH. Higher alkalinity makes it harder to change pH. If you've got high pH and high alk, then it's hard to bring that high pH down. If you've got low pH and high alk then it is just about as hard to bring that low pH up.

The buffering action resists changes in pH in any direction.

could the problem be that the OPs 10-12 alk is whats causing his water to resist all his attempts at PH adjustment?

 

[Rudimenta]

That would make a lot of sense! Now I am dealing with all step by step, first the saltelinity. Not dosing or feeding anything atm besides the daily vodka.

Just amazing difference lowering it has made already and I am now on 36, I realize it's fast but with the improvements just almost real time so I just continued. I am using a nano top off pump, so it's going gradually, not like a water change.

 

[bertoni]

As long as the alkalinity is in the 7-11 dKH range, its effect on the pH level is fairly small. The numbers in this thread must include some measurement problems.

 

[Rudimenta]

Well it dropped down to 10 today.

I am double checking these and of course the test kit only gives drop count but its never off by more then one drop to the hanna. So i am sure they are correct. It could be that the high saltelinity was messing up the tests. Since i have not read 10 or lower since the whole saga began.

 

[Rudimenta]

Update, everything seems to be getting back to normal. That remark about dKH too high to lower the pH, made me do a big water change today after the salt contious water change of yesterday. The PH has been continuously rising up with the day swing but ended now just over 8.

Now let's hope tomorrow morning reads something up of 7.8 instead of 7.5 ish.

It also makes sense in a way that with such a high salt mix, you automatically create a high dKH level.

 

[Rudimenta]

7.8 exactly this morning

 

[bertoni]

Okay, that makes sense.

 

[Rudimenta]

The "outside" sump is at 8.1 so that 0.1 difference would be logical for the lid top.