I am currently considering getting a psychedelic mandarin fish for my 20 gallon nano tank. I know that mandarin fish are capable of consuming vast amounts of copepods in one day and was wondering what the opinions were on using a small hang on back filter with live rock, magic mud, and chaeto to produce copepods that are fed into the main display tank. I am hoping to buy a mandarin fish from the LFS that already accepts some prepared foods so that I can feed him directly with cyclo-peeze, brine shrimp, and spirulina as well as to try and culture copepods in a tuper ware container so that I could "pipet" some copepods into the tank when I felt populations were declining. What are the expert opinions on this setup? Am I alright or will I still end up lacking in the amount of copepods I will need?
Maintaining copepod populations for a mandarin
- Thread starter Hades
- Start date
ScarabRa
Member
Re: Maintaining copepod populations for a mandarin
IMHO and Experience:
Unless the 20gal is loaded with pods, and already established, I dont think the mandrin will be able to be sustained on natural foods for long. Maby if its a really tiny mandrin, but that would only be if, and ONLY if the tank was already established with pods.
That tank is not large enough to produce its own food supply of pods, unless the fuge was/is WAY bigger.
Better to have TOO MANY pods, than not enough.
IMHO and Experience:
Unless the 20gal is loaded with pods, and already established, I dont think the mandrin will be able to be sustained on natural foods for long. Maby if its a really tiny mandrin, but that would only be if, and ONLY if the tank was already established with pods.
That tank is not large enough to produce its own food supply of pods, unless the fuge was/is WAY bigger.
Better to have TOO MANY pods, than not enough.
You might have a prob in the Nano. The Pods can reproduce if there are enough of them and enough rock to hide in. You can just buy bottles of pods but that gets very expensive. Just keep an eye on him and make sure that he is eating. Those fish graze and eat all them time so if you dont have enough and he gets hungry and starts to starve he many not start to eat again even if there are pods in the tank. Mandarins are hard to keep sometimes.
J. Montgomery
Mouth Pipetting
I don't recommend getting one either. I haven't been able to keep one long term in my 55 gallon.
Randall_James
Premium Member
it is generally accepted that you need at least 100lbs of good live rock habitat for copepod propagation to keep a mandarin fed fairly well. This is provided that there are no other copepod predators as well.
It is always possible that it will eat prepared foods but I would never purchase an animal based on the concept you can teach it to eat an abnormal diet.
I would bypass this fish
It is always possible that it will eat prepared foods but I would never purchase an animal based on the concept you can teach it to eat an abnormal diet.
I would bypass this fish
reefer1024
New member
Dont do it! Way to small! Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!!!!!!!!
I don't think I am going to do it anymore, but if you look in old RK magazines tanks of the month a mandrin was kept in a tank that was about 8 gallons in size but the fuge was around 27 gallons. I was going to try and recreate that setup but with my 20 gallon but it sems like the work may be more than the reward. Thanks all of you for the advice.
reefer1024
New member
I think in that tank he found a mandarin that was eating prepared foods.
coral acquisition
Active member
maybe get a refugium running on a separate tank maybe a 10-20gallons. then have a bagfull and trasfer it to your main tank every night to repopulate the pods in the main tank for your mandarin.
i was thinking of doing this. you guys think its a good idea?
i was thinking of doing this. you guys think its a good idea?
Julio
Active member
you can do only if you stock your nano with pods and culture them in the nanon by feeding phyto on a regular babsis to get the pods to reproduce rapidly and them if it works out then you can add, i have one in a 30 gallon but he ate frozen foods too and way too fat. Cyclops eeze will help too.
MammothReefer
Active member
I had a breeding pair of mands in my 55gallon for quite some time, both were very healthy (to the point they started to breed) sadly i lost them due to equipment failure, but here is what I did
1. Fit the largest sized hob fugue on the back of my tank, filled with sand, rubble and cheato. (feed fugue)
2. Setup rubble piles in your display, behind rock work, ect (rubble pile needs to be in places fishes can't get to so pods can hide and grow in the display
3. Be prepared to feed gutloaded live brine w/frozen mysis to your tank on a regular basis until and in hopes of your fish eating frozen foods.
4. Setup second fugue in sump w/cheato, and culture pods in sump regulars "shake" cheato into display.
5. Don't keep animals that will compete with mands for pods.
1. Fit the largest sized hob fugue on the back of my tank, filled with sand, rubble and cheato. (feed fugue)
2. Setup rubble piles in your display, behind rock work, ect (rubble pile needs to be in places fishes can't get to so pods can hide and grow in the display
3. Be prepared to feed gutloaded live brine w/frozen mysis to your tank on a regular basis until and in hopes of your fish eating frozen foods.
4. Setup second fugue in sump w/cheato, and culture pods in sump regulars "shake" cheato into display.
5. Don't keep animals that will compete with mands for pods.
thejrc
New member
I'd be a hyppocrit if I told you you could keep a mandarin in anything less than 50 gallons with a good stocked fuge and good live rock. Even so I have a mandarin that is quite fat in a bare bottom experimental 20 gallon with a 2.5 gallon aquafuge running a DSB. But then again I culture copepods as a hobby.
Google copepod culturing and go from there, it's quite easy and you will find that a bottle of phyto and a few empty soda bottles along with an airpump will go a long way. You can click my red house to see my findings and what I'm doing with my cultures.
If you do decide to start cultures and go for the mandarin, start your cultures about 45 days ahead of time to get them to mature, for a 20 I'd recommend about 4 2 litre or larger cultures where one is set as a master culture and only split when necessary with the other three cultures running for constant food source. For something that small unless you feed your tank with a phyto source already I'd recommend Kent's phytoplex as it's cheap and readily available and it works for pod culturing quite well. If you feed the tank check the ingredients, anything with nannocloropsis and isochrysis should work, feed such as reef nutrition or Liquid life are better as they offer more variety in phyto species.
Even if you start culturing, make sure you have at least some environment for them to hide in, preferably a refugium of some sort as well as live rock and a good sand bed, but if you must settle for one of the three go with the fuge, live rock next (I'm fighting back the urge to say that a good stack of live rock should be required). And definately make sure you have a last resort.... cultures crash, it simply happens. Make sure you have an LFS that either stocks or can get you live pods or mysis (such as Reef nutritions tigger pods) in within a few days in the event you lose your cultures.
If you do decide to go with the mandarin and culture, I hope you find as much interest in the copepod as I have! But if you notice your mandarin getting skinny please by all means find it a better home!
Google copepod culturing and go from there, it's quite easy and you will find that a bottle of phyto and a few empty soda bottles along with an airpump will go a long way. You can click my red house to see my findings and what I'm doing with my cultures.
If you do decide to start cultures and go for the mandarin, start your cultures about 45 days ahead of time to get them to mature, for a 20 I'd recommend about 4 2 litre or larger cultures where one is set as a master culture and only split when necessary with the other three cultures running for constant food source. For something that small unless you feed your tank with a phyto source already I'd recommend Kent's phytoplex as it's cheap and readily available and it works for pod culturing quite well. If you feed the tank check the ingredients, anything with nannocloropsis and isochrysis should work, feed such as reef nutrition or Liquid life are better as they offer more variety in phyto species.
Even if you start culturing, make sure you have at least some environment for them to hide in, preferably a refugium of some sort as well as live rock and a good sand bed, but if you must settle for one of the three go with the fuge, live rock next (I'm fighting back the urge to say that a good stack of live rock should be required). And definately make sure you have a last resort.... cultures crash, it simply happens. Make sure you have an LFS that either stocks or can get you live pods or mysis (such as Reef nutritions tigger pods) in within a few days in the event you lose your cultures.
If you do decide to go with the mandarin and culture, I hope you find as much interest in the copepod as I have! But if you notice your mandarin getting skinny please by all means find it a better home!
Caleb Kruse
New member
LOL, Joe I was just about to post your website about pod culturing.
I've had a mandarin in a 55 for 3 months now and she is staying nice and plump. I have a large pod pile wrapped in netting in the display tank to encourage pods, I have pods growing in my sump, and I have a 29 gallon which is a sort of un-plumbed refugium. I take a handful of chaeto out and put it in the 29 gallon for a few days, then toss it into the sump. So far she is finding plenty to eat.
However, the 55 had been running for a year, and the 29 'fuge was literally crawling, wall to wall with pods before I got the mandarin.
However, the 55 had been running for a year, and the 29 'fuge was literally crawling, wall to wall with pods before I got the mandarin.
davidryder
Claris or Elliot?
Well I'll be honest... I got a green mandarin in my 90 with TWO refugiums and I think he was on the brink of starvation for almost 5 months. I really don't know how he survived. I couldn't get him to eat prepared foods and it took, in 40g of refugiums and 90g of display, 6 months for the pod population to get to the point where the mandarin started to gain weight. I was positive he was going to die but somehow he held on...
Mandarins should be left to the well established and larger systems. 20g, unless accompanied by a 30g+ refugium, might be better off without a mandarin.
If you are totally committed however I'm sure many amongst us including myself can give you tips to give the mandarin the best chance possible. But trust me, if you have any compassion it will be difficult to watch your mandarin waste away and near starve to death
Mandarins should be left to the well established and larger systems. 20g, unless accompanied by a 30g+ refugium, might be better off without a mandarin.
If you are totally committed however I'm sure many amongst us including myself can give you tips to give the mandarin the best chance possible. But trust me, if you have any compassion it will be difficult to watch your mandarin waste away and near starve to death
coral acquisition
Active member
will a six line eat up the pods too? are they ok to mix with a mandarin?
