Materials/Sump help needed asap

SkiFletch

New member
Why oh why can't major mishaps come when you have time on your hands? Why do they always have to happen when you're booked out for weeks in advance and dont have time to fix problems?

Long story short, my sump tank failed again. Some of you may remember that the same thing happened to me about a month ago. Part of my seam split in the makeshift 10g sump I was using. I repaired it since it would have been so much of a pain to remove the tank as best I thought and it wasn't enough. Never is when working with silicone, glass, and water pressure, but figured I'd try. Only spilled a little over a gallon on the stand/floor so I'm not loosing sleep over it. However, I now pretty much have to re-do my sump. And this time I'd rather do it properly. I'm not looking for anything fancy here, but I want something thats going to work.

As I see it, I'm faced with a few problems. #1, the tank is an allglass 45 tall. Dimensions 3x1x2' LWH. That leaves me a footprint area of 34x10" to place a sump in. A 10g is EXCEPTIONALY limiting and other than an equally limiting 15tall is the only thing that will fit in the stand (with the limiting width factor). I dont have the option of upgrading or moving anytime soon, so consider me stuck with this tank size as un-ideal as it may be. Problem #2 is that the tank is full of livestock and cannot be mettled with too much, therefore all modifications must be done in-place. And last but not least is that flipping middle support on an allglass stand which prevents me from fitting a long custom sump tank inside.

I am NOT going to use a glass tank sine repair is too difficult compared to acrylic (I love solvent welding). That leaves me with seemingly 2 options. First, buy pre-cut acrylic and build the sump in-place. Second, re-inforce the longitudinal support, remove the center vertical support, and pre-fab a custom acrylic tank to slide in place. Either option presents a lot of work, and neither is simple from an engineering point of view. I'm leaning towards removing the support cause if I ever do need to service the sump, it will be a PAIN to do with building the tank in-place.

Either way, I would like to know if there is anywhere locally (prefferably no farther than rochester) that I can buy pre-cut 3/8" acrylic sheets? Or, are there any mail order locations where I could purchase such an item? My reason for choosing the thickness is because its easier to solvent weld when thicker, despite of course the increased cost. I'd rather this tank didn't fail ;)

Also, if I do decide to remove the center support member, do you guys think re-inforcing the front frame with slotted steel alloy would prevent bowing of the remaining support members and allow me to remve that center piece?

As always, I appreciate your help :)
 
I wish I could help you out. Messing with things before going away for a length of time is a big no-no in my book.
From experience, this is what I've done and what I suggest:
The center support of your aquarium stand can easily be removed to fit a larger sump inside it. Remove the wooden verticle support by tapping out the staples or nails, slide the sump in and then re-attach the support. If it makes you feel better you can temporarily support the edge of the stand with a jack (or similar) type arrangement or reinforce it permanently. A permanent slotted steel alloy support shouldn't be necessary. (Have you priced metals lately?!)

FWIW I've removed center supports on AGA 225 and 75 gallon stands to slide in large sumps in exactly as this manner I just described and my odds at the casino were always very bad.

As for the sump, a glass aquarium shouldn't leak. I can't help you out with acrylic sump recommendations because I use glass. You can choose to build an acrylic sump, but for time's sake, ease and expense I would place the largest glass aquarium sump inside your stand that will fit. (Perhaps a 20 gallon). If you have enough room, glue a baffle (or two) into it and call it a day.
 
Ditto on what Gary said. His advice is excellent as always.

If you do decide to build from Acrylic, Great Lakes Plastics is in the phone book. They are local, in Cheektowaga and have in stock all the sizes of acrylic you could need. As a matter of fact, if you are building something small, chances are you could get all your pieces from the scrap bin and save a lot of $$. The hard part, IMO, is that they are open during "normal" business hours, which is when most of us are at work.
 
Well, as far as pricing goes, the slotted angle would be free ;). And as far as glass tanks go, a 10 or 15g are the largest tanks that fit in the stand due to the **** poor width of the 45. A 20 long is 12" wide and I only have a just over 10" to work with in there. So unless anybody knows somebody locally that builds custom glass sizes, I'd still like to use acrylic. I just dont trust myself to run a 30" bead of silicone to seal a glass tank, but I do trust myself to solvent weld that long.

Thanks for the advice Gary, at least I know the tank wont come crashing down on me if I just remove the center support to slide in a big sump :)
 
I would go to Great Lakes Plastics. They have everything you need. You can probably get away with a thinner acrylic, if you make the sump flush with your stand walls. I would just build it in place, take a hammer to the old sump or whatever and get it out. Then, build the new one in its place. Look over Melev’s site, for sump tips. Euro braces a good idea as well when working with acrylic since it will bow more in 6 months than it will in six days, meaning what looks good at first may not look as good down the road. Also, wait as long as possible for the welds to dry. Unless you build this and then place it in completed you will be without a sump for a little while so plan ahead for filtration.
 
So, Great Lakes Plastics huh? I needed a reason to take a half day off anyways :D I guess I'll weigh the cost differential between say 3/8, 5/16, and 1/4" thick acrylic. I'd really like to go as thick as I can afford though to make SURE I get a leak free solder weld. Piece of mind is worth a lot ;)

Thanks for the input all, and if anybody has more, keep it coming
 
Remember to check the scrap bin. You dont need full sheets and can save a lot using scraps, so measure the sizes you need before you go and bring a measuring tape.
 
Contact Keith, beg and plead, he'll build you a nice sump. ;)
Alternatively, if you're stressing the joints frequently, consider adding some bracing to the corners to increase the surface area you're welding (just another strip running up inside each corner will give you the added gluing surface).

- Mac
 
Hehe, beg huh? While I'm sure Kieth builds fantastic sumps, I'd rather do it myself cause I'm an addict for working with my hands :D

On the plus side, I managed to repair the failing 10g again, so I have a couple weeks to get this done. Basically enough time to not rush it and screw somethin up :) Thanks for the advice so far.
 
Wow, sometimes I amaze even myself with my crazy ideas... If I go through the pain of supporting the stand to remove a brace, why not just fill the well of the stand with some stained scrap wood up to the level of the bottom edge of the stand frame. Then I can actually fit a 12" wide tank and can use a 20 long or a 29 tall since both are 30x12. No need for a custom 30x10 sump, save myself the hassle and worry of a DIY tank. So much easier. Always over-engineering the problem...
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7594145#post7594145 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SkiFletch
Always over-engineering the problem...

That's gotta be my favorite part about this hobby. :D

- Mac
 
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