Mertens or Haddons?

[delphinus]

Sorry, one more post, had a parting thought ...

My brown gigantea has verrucae that are unmistakable and bright purple. My green gigantea has verrucae that are still purple, but far less prominent and less numerous. I'm not certain if I have a picture online that shows the verrucae of that one, I'll go look for one and if I do I'll post back. But it looks more or less just like yours. So now that I've had a chance to think about it some, I'm leaning more now towards gigantea (if I was 70% sure before, now I'm like .. um .. 80% sure. ).

Here are the verrucae of my brown gigantea:

.. Ok, after searching, the best picture I found is the same one as my avatar. It's not as clear as the brown, but for what it's worth, look at the verrucae peeking out from under the clown:

I also found this picture but as you can see it had actually gotten some more verrucae by the time this picture was taken (it's at least a year newer than the other one):

 

[phender]

I have found in my experience with giganteas that the verrucae spots can become more prominant as the anemone become healthier. I have purchased a couple giganteas without noticable spots that had spots appear a couple months later.

I am pretty sure your anemone is a gigantea as well. I am just not willing to bet the house on it at this point.

 

[cartman5579]

I can't agree 100% either as i've never seen a gigantea that had this short of tentacles before. Seems like they should be longer.

I seriously don't think its gigantea, and i'm actually thinking that it IS a haddoni.

If i'm wrong than its got to be a hybrid species.

 

[traveller7]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11180941#post11180941 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by phender
I have found in my experience with giganteas that the verrucae spots can become more prominant as the anemone become healthier. I have purchased a couple giganteas without noticable spots that had spots appear a couple months later.

I have had the same experience with H. magnifica.

fwiw: I am leaning gigantea on this one as well, but little in reefkeeping is certain.

 

[cartman5579]

here are all the pics i could find

 

[delphinus]

My experience with gigantea is that when they come in, they come in with shorter tentacles. They get longer over time and in my experience was at least a year before they really started showing significant lengthening. Also both my anemones shortened their tentacles for about a week when I had moved them into their current tank (they were moved at separate times, but both showed the retraction or whatever we'll call it, for about a week each). So I presume it's just something about the handling and the adjustment to new waters.

Let me put it this way: If I saw this anemone at the store, and I wanted a gigantea, I would buy it. Time will help settle the last lingering doubts but I'm already reasonably certain that I'd be willing to bet, well, maybe not as much as my "house", but certainly the "purchase price of the anemone."

 

[Flighty]

I don't have a lot of experience with giganteas, but from the ones I've seen the spots seem to develop with size as well. Smaller ones having fewer lighter spots and larger ones having lots of bright purple spots.

Maybe that is an artifact related to health though, once they have time to settle in and be healthy they show the spots and that coincides with growth.

 

[phender]

The new pics confuse me even more.

If I had seen just the first two new pics, I would say absolutely haddoni.
If I had just seen the last two pics, I would say probably gigantea.

Going back and looking at the original pics, I am starting to think that the uncolored verracae in the first pic look more like haddoni than gigantea.

As more evidence comes in and since it was bought as a haddoni and Cartman thinks its a haddoni (he's the only one that has seen it in person) I am really starting to lean toward a haddoni with longer than normal tentalces.

Is there a lot of current in the tank? (I'm trying to find a way to rationalize the long tentacles.)

 

[cartman5579]

i run a wireless vortech on pulse about 1/2 throttle....so about 1500gph just with the powerhead alone.

The verracae in this guy is definitely blue to purple in color, if that makes a difference. And i didn't buy it from a LFS, i got it from another reefer who had it for over 3 years and he didn't tell me it was a haddoni, he said "i think thats what it is." I'm sure this don't help.

 

[Flighty]

Has it eaten any fish in yours or his tank?

 

[cartman5579]

has eaten fish in his tank including naso tang.

nothing in my tank, but all i have are TP's. Not that that matter, but just saying all clowns here

 

[phender]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11181326#post11181326 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cartman5579
has eaten fish in his tank including naso tang.

nothing in my tank, but all i have are TP's. Not that that matter, but just saying all clowns here

A quote from the Fautin/Allen book regarding S. haddoni, "Small, non-adhesive verrucae on uppermost column are same colour as column or light rose to purple."
So that takes care of the purple spots.

Not that gigantea can't catch fish, but that is certainly more of a haddoni thing. (Good question Flighty!)

I have owned and seen several haddoni that have made me think, hmmm.... I wonder if that might actually be a gigantea or a mertens and then I look at the thickness of the base or something else and say, "duh, it is just a haddoni, quit trying to see things that aren't there."

One the otherhand I have also had and seen many giganteas and mertens and never once thought, "wow, I wonder if that's actually a haddoni".

I am now ready to do almost a complete flip flop and say I am 98% sure that it is a haddoni.

 

[cartman5579]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11181449#post11181449 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by phender
A quote from the Fautin/Allen book regarding S. haddoni, "Small, non-adhesive verrucae on uppermost column are same colour as column or light rose to purple."
So that takes care of the purple spots.

Not that gigantea can't catch fish, but that is certainly more of a haddoni thing. (Good question Flighty!)

I have owned and seen several haddoni that have made me think, hmmm.... I wonder if that might actually be a gigantea or a mertens and then I look at the thickness of the base or something else and say, "duh, it is just a haddoni, quit trying to see things that aren't there."

One the otherhand I have also had and seen many giganteas and mertens and never once thought, "wow, I wonder if that's actually a haddoni".

I am now ready to do almost a complete flip flop and say I am 98% sure that it is a haddoni.

Too funny, do to the fact that last night you said nothing about my carpet say's haddoni to you.

But i agree with you. Thanks for all the research.

 

[phender]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11181477#post11181477 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cartman5579
Too funny, do to the fact that last night you said nothing about my carpet say's haddoni to you.

But i agree with you. Thanks for all the research.

That is why it is difficult to make IDs of anemones and other moving organisms with still pictures. I knew something didn't look quite right, but without the whole picture it is difficult to know exactly why. Your eyes take the picture, but your brain allows you to see. The more info that comes in, the more you are able to see things you didn't notice at first.

(And sometimes I am just wrong.) :eek1: shhhh......

 

[MarinaP]

Does verrucae catch food or sand particles? There was something in Vossa (sorry, no Norwegian/Danish etc. keyboard to spell his name correctly) &Nilsen book about that.

 

[delphinus]

Not that I have had the benefit of seeing as many gigantea's as others, but, I have a hard time believing either of mine could/would ever take down a fish such as a Naso tang. Simply just not that aggressive of a feeder, in fact I've had fish like mandarins sleep right underneath the carpets.

Haddoni on the other hand, the one and only haddoni I ever had was a strong feeder and anything that brushed up against it was eaten with very few exceptions. I never lost a fish to it but the folks who've cared for it in the years since I sold it have all lost fish to it. In fact I think I ever heard it took down a Naso tang among even a few other similarly sized fish (and countless smaller fish as well of course).

Sooo... I guess I'll do the old flip-flop too. Maybe it is haddoni.

 

[phender]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11181922#post11181922 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MarinaP
Does verrucae catch food or sand particles? There was something in Vossa (sorry, no Norwegian/Danish etc. keyboard to spell his name correctly) &Nilsen book about that.

I don't remember seeing verrucae ever catching food in any of the anemones in my care.
I have seen the verrucae of H. crispa and M. doreensis pick up sand, but I have never seen that happen in any of the three carpet species. I have seen the verrucae of mertens and gigantea carpets attach to rocks, but I don't remember seeing it in haddoni.
That is my experience. I don't know what Vossa & Nilsen have written.

 

[Flighty]

Do giganteas and haddonis smell different?

I know, weird question, but anemones do have a distinctive smell and you can smell it by getting a little slime on your finger. Do they all smell the same, or can that be used as id too?

 

[traveller7]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11183629#post11183629 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Flighty
Do giganteas and haddonis smell different?

I know, weird question, but anemones do have a distinctive smell and you can smell it by getting a little slime on your finger. Do they all smell the same, or can that be used as id too?

Caution folks.

This is a scary road to go down. Not sure we should be using human sensory beyond visual for these critters. Some folks react very badly when they put their hands in the water. Don't even want to consider recommending much beyond that.

 

[delphinus]

I find the best way to really ID them 100% is check the serial # imprinted on the bottom of the pedal disk. (teeheehee, sorry, I just had to. Someone once pulled this line on me when I asked how they could tell their anemone was a "she" and I've been waiting to use this line ever since, for like 5 years now).