Mhucasey's SPS obsession

[nemodan]

Hi Matt

Amazing Acros there man.

As a follow up, in my previous posting here, I told you that I was 0.25 ppm Phosp. and 50 ppm NO3. I reduced food to half and cleaned my 4 media racks with Matrix.

3 weeks later: Phosp 0.2 ppm and NO3 a color between 25 - 50 ppm in Salifert kit.

I see an improvement. I hope it continues.

Best Daniel

 

[glaukos]

Hope too,that will continue, daniel:thumbsup:

 

[glaukos]

Matt colors look awesome!Now i get where you find all that "carefree" reaction regarding aefw
Who cares about them,when tank looks like this
Really hope it stays unaffected bud!Didn't have any luck in my case
Restarted both times.Tried to fight it the first one but end up just loosing time,money and hopes.

Regarding sipo and matrix.
Correct me if i'm wrong but you introduced sipo and matrix in the tank 5 months ago.
Your No3 level at that time,were already 5-10.
For the next 4 months while using both,nitrates stayed at that exact level.At least from the test results you were kindly sharing bud.
The first time you noticed them rising at 25-50 was a month+ back.
When you thought that something AF related could mess with the salifert test.

So my question is why,high flow through the media wasn't creating no3 for 4 months and started after that?
Many many people have their sipo wrongly/not ideally placed and do not experience no3 raise.
Not doing it's job(no3 reduction) in some of the cases yes but not the opposite.

I stand stubbornly against the theory that HIGH FLOW through sipo and matrix, creates no3.
The reasons for that,i mentioned before,no need to repeat and make the post even longer
Plus my personal exp shows the opposite and other people's exp included.But every tank is different,so personal exp isn't a biblical thing.

So my thoughts on your no3 are
1.Flow wasn't as high as it seemed or it wasn't so evenly flowing through the media(sump or reactor).
That (as you already know,no need for lectures from me mate) can create no3 indeed,as detritus(uneaten food etc) build up and as they disintegrate end up creating no3.
So as the months passed by without rinsing etc,resulted in more and more detritus.
What if removing matrix actually removed detritus,resulting in that no3 reduction you witnessed ?I think someone though of it before me.

2.Both times i dealt with aefw,sps corals where not happy/healthy.
Even my ca and kh raised because their growth rate paused.
So while aefw started doing their nasty work,you kept your AF routines and coral feeding schedule.
What if the stressed corals "froze" and couldn't consume( or assist in the % they did before) ,all the AF-etc food that was thrown in the tank resulting in no3 raise?

3.That plastic rock isn't helping at all regarding tank's biological functions and you need more sipo?matrix?live rock?dead rock?

Just thoughts and my 02 cents matt.
Not guru material/stuff!

The only reason i insist in all this blah blah, is because a "special guy" is waiting anxiously around the corner,to get justified...for his theories.And then...omg...then...
When there is absolutely no sharing of personal data,tests,photos,sharing his tank etc and i anxiously await for them,so i/we can see where all that wisdom comes from.
Otherwise i'd just stare at your amazing pics and simply express my admiration:beer:

Just to clarify something,i don't think it was wrong removing it.
Like you said already,what's the point having it there,when it's not working.More space to try something else
After all you know what's best for you and your tank

 

[PatrikD]

While dosing -NP Pro is carbon dosing it's not going to have the same effect as using vinegar or vodka.

Matrix and Siporax are intended to be used after a pre-filter of some sort, filter

Can you elaborate on this please?

 

[nemodan]

Can you elaborate on this please?

Following what ReefVet wrote, after reading the long siporax/matrix thread, a couple of months ago I added to my pumps connected to the media reactors a sponge filter (big square of sponge filter) to reduce (filter) the entrance of particles. The sponge is also another place for bacterias to growth. I clean them..... when I feel they are dirty enough. I did it once in these 2-3 months i have been using it.

Daniel

 

[nemodan]

.
What if the stressed corals "froze" and couldn't consume( or assist in the % they did before) ,all the AF-etc food that was thrown in the tank resulting in no3 raise?

I think that is exactly why my P and N raised. Sometimes I feel that I am a guy with no brain. Most of my corals were dying and i was still keeping the same fish feeding routine. Plus I had Matrix reactors very dirty. I used them for several months without a pre-filter , like ReefVet pointed. Looks like my food reduction and cleaning of the Matrix reactors is helping lets see.

BTW... Thank you Glaukos for your comments.

Daniel

 

[mhucasey]

Regarding sipo and matrix.
Correct me if i'm wrong but you introduced sipo and matrix in the tank 5 months ago.

First several liters started in January, then added more in February, then put it into a reactor probably around April, ran the reactor for a month or so and got fed up with keeping the flow right, so dumped it into the sump - mostly the first chamber- and added 4 more liters of Matrix at that time.

Your No3 level at that time,were already 5-10.
For the next 4 months while using both,nitrates stayed at that exact level.At least from the test results you were kindly sharing bud.
The first time you noticed them rising at 25-50 was a month+ back.
When you thought that something AF related could mess with the salifert test.

The Nitrates were probably higher than 10 in some of those tests - I had been reading through the side and when the color gets dark it looks like the value for 100 AKA 10 - i never looked from the top.

So my question is why,high flow through the media wasn't creating no3 for 4 months and started after that?
Many many people have their sipo wrongly/not ideally placed and do not experience no3 raise.
Not doing it's job(no3 reduction) in some of the cases yes but not the opposite.

I stand stubbornly against the theory that HIGH FLOW through sipo and matrix, creates no3.
The reasons for that,i mentioned before,no need to repeat and make the post even longer
Plus my personal exp shows the opposite and other people's exp included.But every tank is different,so personal exp isn't a biblical thing.

The initial use of the media was in a bag in the low flow area in the sump, transitioning to a media rector with slow, controlled flow. I only moved it to the first chamber more recently. Keep in mind the first chamber is where 3 return lines empty into the sump, its a frothing box of bubbles and water - not just high flow. However, I haven't concluded that the media raised Nitrates in any event yet, they just didn't lower them.

So my thoughts on your no3 are
1.Flow wasn't as high as it seemed or it wasn't so evenly flowing through the media(sump or reactor).
That (as you already know,no need for lectures from me mate) can create no3 indeed,as detritus(uneaten food etc) build up and as they disintegrate end up creating no3.
So as the months passed by without rinsing etc,resulted in more and more detritus.
What if removing matrix actually removed detritus,resulting in that no3 reduction you witnessed ?I think someone though of it before me.

Just some things to think about:
1) I remove detritus from the tank itself, more than what came out of the Matrix in fact, regularly, and the Nitrate levels never go lower.
2) I have a sulfur dentitrator producing Nitrate free water - in effect a 16 gallon water change each day, and the value drops only very slowly - slower than it should based on the math.
3) When this was one tank instead of two, and I had 30+ well fed fish, I had to dose Nitrate to keep it from going to zero. There was a ton of detritus in both the tank and sump. I have way less visible detritus now, the same sump, skimmer, and a few more fish, and can barely get it to drop. I don't think that The AIO pellets are that much better at reducing Nitrates than NP Pro- there are plenty of low nitrate NP Pro tanks out there.
4) This same system had low nitrates up until this year - there aren't many places for detritus to "Hide" as it is a bare-bottom system in one tank and the sump is small and cleaned. So I don't think it is a build-up of stuff that is causing it.

2.Both times i dealt with aefw,sps corals where not happy/healthy.
Even my ca and kh raised because their growth rate paused.
So while aefw started doing their nasty work,you kept your AF routines and coral feeding schedule.
What if the stressed corals "froze" and couldn't consume( or assist in the % they did before) ,all the AF-etc food that was thrown in the tank resulting in no3 raise?

Oy vey. Starting to regret saying anything about AEFW. The corals are growing like they are on steroids, with good PE and great color. It was just a few that had issues, and those only showed up in the last few weeks. Ive been increasing my Ca reactor output lately actually.

3.That plastic rock isn't helping at all regarding tank's biological functions and you need more sipo?matrix?live rock?dead rock?

Just thoughts and my 02 cents matt.
Not guru material/stuff!

Just to clarify something,i don't think it was wrong removing it.
Like you said already,what's the point having it there,when it's not working.More space to try something else
After all you know what's best for you and your tank

The plastic rock isn't the only rock in the system, I wouldn't be scratching my head if it was
The Flubber tank has plenty of live rock and sand in it for this system. I got caught up in the magic beans fever and thought "what could it hurt?". Well maybe nothing but the tank is just fine without more crud in the sump so its in a bin in the garage now.

 

[glaukos]

I don't think you could/would hide aefw bud,you're not that type of hobbyist who hides/puts under the carpet, the bad stuff:beer:

We all get new fevers and "spells" all the time.Trying things and failing or succeeding, is part of this hobby...the best thing is to share them.
Your 127 pages shows exactly that:thumbsup:

 

[Piper27]

-NP Pro will support the Probiotic S strains of bacteria so they can out compete established bacteria and break down DOCs in the water column.

While dosing -NP Pro is carbon dosing it's not going to have the same effect as using vinegar or vodka.

I am curious about this topic as well. How is the -np pro going to break down doc's? Wouldn't it just feed bacteria which in turn feeds off of nitrates and phosphates? Nitrates and phosphates are just part of total dissolved organic compounds right? So dosing -np pro is doing more than vodka or other carbon sources?

I have yet to find any real scientific info related to reef tanks and carbon sources concerning different bacteria strains being out competed, anyone have any info on this topic? I have been dosing vodka, vinegar, and -np pro for a while now and dose a lot more than the average person. I have about 400 gallons of water and am dosing about 50 ml of vodka, 50 ml of vinegar and 150 ml of -np pro. It says not to use these together but I have had no issues, I would guess they just want you to buy more of their product. But if that were true they wouldn't say biopellets work with the -np pro which they do say right? I would love to know what might be in -np pro because it doesn't smell.


Mhucasey, your acros are looking good, keep up the good work and don't worry about the aefw. But don't forget about them either

 

[Reefvet]

Can you please explain me, how can one carbon source, as NP pro, could selectively feed just some strains of bacteria ,as Probiotic S, and not the other established bacteria in our tanks?

The carbon won't be selective but the bacteria are. The -NP Pro molecule is larger than most commonly used carbon sources.

Toss some .5 mm Spectrum pellets at large fish and watch them swim right past them. Then toss some large pellets are some small fish and watch them ignore what won't fit in their mouth.

Food chains are selective by design.

I am curious about this topic as well. How is the -np pro going to break down doc's? Wouldn't it just feed bacteria which in turn feeds off of nitrates and phosphates?

My post wasn't clear, it is the bacteria supported by the -NP Pro, as you say. Sorry for the unclear wording.

I have yet to find any real scientific info related to reef tanks and carbon sources concerning different bacteria strains being out competed, anyone have any info on this topic?

You haven't read it because it's very difficult, read expsensive, to research on the reef tank scale. Research done on waste water treatment is effectively comparable and well funded.

And now back to our regularly scheduled programming. Please.

 

[Pife]

Have you tested your top off water for nitrates? I have seen 0 tds Rodi read over 50 on a nitrate test.

 

[slavetonet]

Speedy recovery Matt.

 

[mhucasey]

Speedy recovery Matt.

Thanks!
Thinks are way past recovery at this point - I did a bunch of dipping and here and there, and a few worms came off random corals, but I have yet to see another bite on any coral. I have also not seen any evidence of any other negative effect of the worms in the tank. Very weird pest.

I submitted a ticket to CoralVue about my broken Gen1 Gyre motor block. They said it was out of warranty, but they sent me a replacement "as a courteousy". CoralVue is the best folks! I mounted the newly rebuilt Gyre where the Tunze was in the SPS tank, so now I have 2 Gyre XF-150s on one side and one XF-150 on the other programmed with all kinds of alternating and cooperative flow patterns!

 

[mhucasey]

I haven't tested phosphate for a few months at least, mainly because I ran out of test packets. I finally got some yesterday, and had no idea where the value would be at. The value was at 0.00ppm - a bit surprising actually, but its ok with me

 

[plyle02]

Matt,
Despite the worms, the corals and the tank look incredible, so it is completely doable to live with them, you just need to blast the corals and add some Flatworm Stop(which I think you already are). I have found that in the past when I had flatworms, that as long as the corals are blasted with a powerhead, or turkey baster, you can control them no problem, as evident in your coral health. Glad to see things doing well my friend

 

[macdaddynick1]

I made another new friend today!

I want to rescue them all

How do you rescue them? My favorite acro


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[reefmutt]

Matt, maybe your 0 p reading is the cause of your elevated n..

 

[slavetonet]

Matt, maybe your 0 p reading is the cause of your elevated n..

I am thinking the same thing as you Matt... I vaguely remember something like this happen a while ago with me...

 

[Diesel3443]

thin tissues ? how to identify that ?

Dry looking? Thats the best way I can describe it

 

[mhucasey]

How do you rescue them? My favorite acro


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I take them home!:lol2: