Microscopic ID help

[The_jaydog]

So another quick question. Would it hurt anything to treat this problem as if dinos were my only problem? I guess I'm afraid of harming something else.

 

[Quiet_Ivy]

So another quick question. Would it hurt anything to treat this problem as if dinos were my only problem? I guess I'm afraid of harming something else.

Wow, awesome pics! You have major microbial diversity going on! Look at that multicellular purple nucleus thing..

Does this look like dinos on a macro scale? Microscopically it looks like cyano in the first series and a bit of everything in the 2nd, including a LOT of what looks suspiciously like a diatom in the family Navicula. That picture is probably what a tank is *supposed* to look like..I get a near monoculture of dinos when I scrape my glass.

Treating.. Sounds like you're going for the "dirty method" against dinos? It certainly won't hurt anything. I don't know what effect higher nutrient levels will have on cyano, you'll be a test case.

hth
Ivy (had to actually dose nitrate tonight, tank is dropping from 5ppm to 0 in less than a week)

 

[The_jaydog]

There does appear to be a whole lot going on here. I wasn't sure if that was a good thing or a bad, lol.

Are the diatoms the bow tie looking things? I know that diatoms are uniform in shape but the shapes differ. Are they all like that? That was one of the first things that caught my eye when I looked at it.

I wasn't sure how to go about treating it. I feel very fortunate to not have to worry a whole lot about harming anything. There isn't anything in here except these guys. I'm going to show some ignorance here but what exactly is the "dirty method"? Honestly I wasn't particular about any one method over another. Since the tank doesn't have any inhabitants I feel comfortable going as aggressively as I can, within reason, lol. No nuclear bleach bombs, lol. I have read about a few methods on RC. I just know that the blackout method helps to keep it dow but doesn't do anything at all to kill it. As soon as the lights come back on it takes over in a matter of two days!

I guess I should have mentioned in the beginning that my parameters are well within reason. I honestly haven't tested in a week or so, but nothing was alarming. Also my lights are new LED lights so I don't think they are a problem. At first I blamed the lights. They were T5's and 2 or 3 years old.

If anyone has a method of treatment I would greatly appreciate it. I hope to get this nasty junk under control really soon. I just want to be 100% positive that it's gone before I put anything in it. That way I can buy something and get new hitch hiking junk to look at under a scope, lol.

Thanks again guys!

 

[Quiet_Ivy]

Are the diatoms the bow tie looking things? I know that diatoms are uniform in shape but the shapes differ. Are they all like that? That was one of the first things that caught my eye when I looked at it.

I apologize in advance for this incredibly long post.
Yep! Diatoms come in every shape in the universe, but the bow-tie is diagnostic for one of their Orders. Google image search "pennate saltwater diatom" or "navicula diatom" for examples. Nothing else really looks like that, Dinos are round to arrow shaped but never show 2 lines that clearly. You're actually lucky, round microbes are waaaaay more difficult to identify.

Treating (diatoms and cyano):
-WWM actually recommends treating dinoflagellates by dosing silica to cause a diatom bloom!
-diatoms depend on silica rather than N or P (cyano likes P, dinos live off the aquarist's frustration level)
-check your rodi first. Getting any tds? Silica comes through when the membrane or di media are exhausted
-GFO and polyfilter will get rid of silica as well as phosphate but they're pricy in a big tank. Seachem PhosGuard says it removes silica.
-Consider chemi-clean or red slime remover to knock down the cyano. I know I keep saying this but it sounds like your cyano is a toxic variety so anything you put in to eat the diatoms may get poisoned. Knock it down a bit and the gazillion other microcritters you have in there might finish it off
-almost all snails will eat diatoms but nothing really eats cyano.
-cyano doesn't like strong flow

"Dirty" Method for Dinos: (We should probably call this something high minded and scientific like 'natural succession of marine phytoalgal communities')

Dinoflagellates thrive in ultra low nutrient conditions when no green algae is evident. Dinos can't compete as well as green algae at higher nutrient levels, and they seem to eventually poison themselves or their food supply out such that their population crashes and they don't recover. The dirty method encourages this by "neglecting" the tank.
-Let nitrates creep up (to ~5 or less),
-phosphate (to .03-.05) This will make cyano go nuts
-Stop water changes, chemical filtration (I leave carbon in)
-add copepods (they eat dinos), sand biodiversity kits (see reeflcleaners, ipsf .com)
-some people swear by 3 day blackouts+dosing hydrogen peroxide at night to sterilize the water column. Didn't work for me but the usual dose is 1mL H2O2 per 10g. You can go much higher than this in an empty tank. Use a lot of mechanical filtration during blackouts and run carbon.
Wait until you see green algae on the glass, and hair algae on the rocks.

hope you aren't stunned by the Wall o' Text
Ivy

 

[The_jaydog]

Oh wow Quiet_Ivy thank you so much. There is a lot of information there and it's very appreciated! I'm going to finish the plumbing and get my sump going so I can get some animals and good algae in there to help me out.

What kind of snails would you recommend I start with? Would a chunk of cheato be a good algae to put in my sump? Would H2O2 harm any of these inhabitants or should I dose before I put get them?

Thanks again!

 

[bertoni]

I've dosed silicate in the past as water glass, but I didn't notice much of an effect. It can help, in theory, though, and I was dosing mostly for sponges.

PhosGuard and GFO both remove silica, but mostly only after depleting all the phosphate from the water column.

 

[The_jaydog]

Oh ok. So which should I start with in your opinion?

 

[bertoni]

I would use GFO if the tank has corals. Otherwise, PhosGuard is okay if the cost is similar or lower. If cost is a major issue, GFO can be regenerated, but the process requires handling toxic chemicals, lye and muriatic acid.

 

[tmz]

GFO will also remove silicate.