Microscopic ID help

[The_jaydog]

Hello everyone. I was wondering if someone could please help me ID this God awful crap in my 55. My tank is several years old. But a few years ago I ran into some problems and everything died. I turned the lights off and kept everything circulating but didn't pay much attention to it until the last 3 months. Now for some reason I have this nasty black algae growing all over the rocks and sand bed. I was able to take a sample of it and examine it under a microscope and this is what I found.

The long stick looking things are actually spirals. When they move from one place to another they do so in a spiraling, sort of i screwing motion. It appears that they feed on the golden brown colored pieces of stuff. Here's another picture with one of them alone.

Whatever this is it stinks to high heaven and it's completely taking over my aquarium. I have had the lights off for 2 weeks now and it seems to be keeping it at bay but as soon as the lights come on it dominates very quickly. I'm slightly irritated because I've been trying to get the coraline algae to take over, but they obviously won't do so with the lights off. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again.

 

[The_jaydog]

I wish I could get a better picture uploaded. They don't really show much detail. That stick thing is not segmented in any way. It appears to be one continuous spiral from top to bottom.

 

[The_jaydog]

Really? Nobody knows anything about these?

 

[bertoni]

They are hard to identify. I'm not qualified to try. You could try to locate a book on the subject, but getting access to one might be inconvenient.

 

[The_jaydog]

Oh ok. I was hoping I guess that someone could point me in a direction. I have wasted countless hours on the Internet going through pictures trying to find something that looks similar. Needless to say I have found nothing. Thank you though for at least answering. I was starting to wonder if I posted incorrectly or something.

 

[bertoni]

I should have answered sooner. I'm not quite sure how I managed to miss this thread.

 

[The_jaydog]

Do you happen to know of any websites that might help me identify these things? They are really stinking up my aquarium. Everytime I put my hand into the water it stinks.

 

[Quiet_Ivy]

Oh ok. I was hoping I guess that someone could point me in a direction. I have wasted countless hours on the Internet going through pictures trying to find something that looks similar. Needless to say I have found nothing. Thank you though for at least answering. I was starting to wonder if I posted incorrectly or something.

Sorry; I saw the post but I'm not great at microscope id either so I was hoping someone with more experience would chime in. I'm using a really old microbio text. There aren't many great saltwater sites for id, especially if one isn't sure if the thing is an algae or cyanobacteria or a space alien. The best online site with a picture key: http://cfb.unh.edu/phycokey/phycokey.htm (check out their 'whoops' section at the bottom it's helped me un identify a couple of things)

http://www-cyanosite.bio.purdue.edu/images/images.html (great calothrix pix)

Top contenders for nuisance cyano:
There's actually a genus of cyano called Oscillatoria: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HlldbZLMOk
Here's a video of Lyngbya another black cyanobacteria that moves: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IKBqC00OmM

or the spiral guys could be ciliates or if they're big, nematodes.

The very circular brown dots are dino spores. The arrow shaped brown thing at the top is probably a dino as well. Anything golden brown is probably a dino or diatom. Diatoms are often beautifully geometric and are surrounded by a clear area. Can you get a closer shot of the thick green guys?

Interesting that you mention smell.. I have dinos and they REEK to my nose. Cyano has a different smell but it's not nearly as offensive. You're running carbon and GFO?

hope that at least gives you something to google
ivy

 

[The_jaydog]

Thank you Ivy. I have several micro pics and some pics of my tank too. It behaves kind of like Dino but I can't get a positive ID on them. They do the whole black stringy thing in the tank and they cover everything Very, Very quickly! I just took a few more pics of a rock at the top of my tank. My coraline is growing nicely up until I turn the lights on and it blankets it literally in a day or so. This stuff sucks whatever it is.

The spiral things seem to be the most dominate thing in the water colum. I have had my lights on since yesterday afternoon and it's already getting out of hand.

 

[The_jaydog]

I'm trying to post more pics but it won't let me for some reason.

 

[Quiet_Ivy]

Thank you Ivy. I have several micro pics and some pics of my tank too. It behaves kind of like Dino but I can't get a positive ID on them. They do the whole black stringy thing in the tank and they cover everything Very, Very quickly! I just took a few more pics of a rock at the top of my tank. My coraline is growing nicely up until I turn the lights on and it blankets it literally in a day or so. This stuff sucks whatever it is.

Behaves like dino in that it's got upward pointing strings with bubbles? Please do post the pics on photobucket or similar site. If you can get a closer view it would really help, especially of the long gray strands and the thick green stuff.

Are the spiral things in the water column the same as the spaghetti at the top of the first picture? I don't think anything besides cyano is likely to be that gray colour.

You've got random dinos in the picture but I'm sure that's not the main problem.
I added some videos to my first post.
Have you tried a serious dose of chemiclean? Might actually help you diagnose, if it works really well you've got cyano. If nothing well, could be calothrix or ?.

hth
ivy

 

[The_jaydog]

Oh my goodness! I found it. The site you posted has a picture of the spiral guys on it. It is spirulina subsalsa. Funny that it has the word salsa in it. I wouldn't eat anything that smells that bad! The reason I keep coming back to them is because I have an old emperor hob filter trying to keep filtration and circulation up while I finish some plumbing. Anyway, I took a toothbrush and brushed along the edge of the filter, where the filtered water meets the aquarium water. There was plenty of this black junk all over that edge. I took a sterile test tube and filled it with RODI water. I then rinsed the brush in the tube, took the vial to work and examined it. What I saw was millions of those spiral guys in thick mounds. Piled many layers thick. I had to keep focusing the scope just to figure out what I was looking at. Finally I took a slide of the water. This is when I was able to see that what I was actually looking at was the spiral things in huge bunches. From what I can see they like to remain straight lengthwise for the most part.

I have video of one of them moving up to a piece of that brown stuff. He hangs out for a few minutes then spins slowly away. I don't have a photo bucket account but I'll make one tonight.

Thank you so much for your help! At least I have some names Thanks to you two.

 

[tmz]

Good work. I had no idea what it was. Thanks to all. Cyano bacteria come in lots of flavors.

I wouldn't eat it with my chips though despite the appetizing name. It has been suggested to be toxic to shrimp in one study:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/002220117890023X

 

[The_jaydog]

I have more pictures to share. I'm not 100% convinced that my #1 problem isn't Dino though. The spirulina just happens to be the most dominate thing in the samples I have taken to work with me. I have had the lights on for about three days straight with no breaks and it's getting out of control. My hope is to collect a really good sample of one of the stringy things and look at that under the scope. I would like to do it tonight. If I do I'll post some pictures somehow. This crazy app keeps failing when I choose a pic from my gallery.

 

[The_jaydog]

<a href="http://s359.photobucket.com/user/jaydogtucker/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20151015_234008_zpsqldlhcqq.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i359.photobucket.com/albums/oo39/jaydogtucker/Mobile%20Uploads/20151015_234008_zpsqldlhcqq.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 20151015_234008_zpsqldlhcqq.jpg"/></a>

Hopefully this link works.

 

[Quiet_Ivy]

I have more pictures to share. I'm not 100% convinced that my #1 problem isn't Dino though. The spirulina just happens to be the most dominate thing in the samples I have taken to work with me. I have had the lights on for about three days straight with no breaks and it's getting out of control. My hope is to collect a really good sample of one of the stringy things and look at that under the scope. I would like to do it tonight. If I do I'll post some pictures somehow. This crazy app keeps failing when I choose a pic from my gallery.

Yay! I love id quests like this actually. I should've taken more micro.
I had to look subsalsa up and I'm very disappointed that it's not a reference to the sexy dance either. You never know with biologists..

Why are you leaving your lights on continuously? That's going to cause any pest to go wild. I just found a great paper on dinos that says you need an extended period of darkness to kill them. They said 5 days to kill 75% cells. That's pretty impressive for a supposedly photosynthetic microbe.

A lot of the cells in your new pic could well be dinos- the flakey bits from 6pm to 9pm look a lot like dino slime and the colour is suspicious- but the cells are all dead and lysed. If you can, get a sample from the rocks and keep it in tank water rather than ro we might be able to get a better idea.

hth
Ivy

 

[The_jaydog]

Oh okay. I sure will. The only reason I used RO water is to try and isolate the crud on the filter. I didn't want to get any of the junk in the water confused with the crud from the filters edge. Crud and junk! I think I should have spent more time in biology and micro as well, [emoji4]

I left the tank lights off for about 2 weeks actually and it didn't progress but it definitely came back with a vengeance when I turned the back on. I was trying to get coraline better established. That's the only reason I didn't leave them off longer. After 2 weeks of darkness I assumed it would be finished. Guess I was wrong. The only thing I can think of next is a total blackout. Black plastic wrap and everything.

I left the lights on for the last few days so I could get a good sample of the stringy things. I wish I had a way to test the gas bubbles but I don't I assume it's probably just C02 or oxygen anyway. I would like to get a positive ID so I can chemically treat it while I am dosing with darkness. Now that I know how to post photo bucket pics I'll put a few more interesting things up.

 

[The_jaydog]

<a href="http://s359.photobucket.com/user/jaydogtucker/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20151015_235007_zpswzscage3.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i359.photobucket.com/albums/oo39/jaydogtucker/Mobile%20Uploads/20151015_235007_zpswzscage3.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 20151015_235007_zpswzscage3.jpg"/></a>

 

[The_jaydog]

Alright, as promised I come bearing pictures.

<a href="http://s359.photobucket.com/user/jaydogtucker/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20151019_232018_zpsfpkohefu.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i359.photobucket.com/albums/oo39/jaydogtucker/Mobile%20Uploads/20151019_232018_zpsfpkohefu.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 20151019_232018_zpsfpkohefu.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s359.photobucket.com/user/jaydogtucker/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20151019_232323_zps7d4xhjqg.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i359.photobucket.com/albums/oo39/jaydogtucker/Mobile%20Uploads/20151019_232323_zps7d4xhjqg.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 20151019_232323_zps7d4xhjqg.jpg"/></a>

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[The_jaydog]

I thought #2 was especially interesting. Lots of cool crap to look at. It's hard to single out it individual different pieces of crud when the mass is so large. I tried to focus on the most prominent things, or when the most stuff could be seen. I hope this helps. Thanks again for all the help you guys have given. I do appreciate it.