Minimalistic multichip DIY LED build

[BeanAnimal]

Tom, we are talking a few mm, where a traditional fixture has at least a few cm, if not 10s of cm between colors.

 

[Lassef]

Tom, we are talking a few mm, where a traditional fixture has at least a few cm, if not 10s of cm between colors.

Look at the picture.

Its a multichip with white, blue, white, blue and so on. But I´m not sure if it is a defect lens or not. I have not seen it before and I have not hear anyone report the same. The picture is taken in air and I did not see the effect when I tested the chip in 4 meters of water. so I´m not sure.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[BeanAnimal]

I for one think the (4) Leg should be taken off the table.... Keep it (the ordering process) simple and commit to a 5 leg version.

While you don't want to go crazy with the colors, it is painfully obvious that the fixtures that are limited to the 4 colors were are taling about... well they somewhat suck with regard to the way the light looks (to me at least) no matter what ratios are dialed up.

I would rather clutter a multichip with many colors to give me options and use MUTLIPLE chips for coverage if needed, instead of settling on a chip lacking in color that has to have traditional emitters mounted around it... back to the disco if you will.


Not to insult anybody, but I find it somewhat odd. Why go through all this trouble to produce pretty much what doesn't already work with discrete emitters to begin with?

 

[jerpa]

I really think you would be better served with a lower Kelvin white. Every LED fixture I have come across is absolutely overpowered in the blue regions. We dont need the blue included with our whites IMO. I think much warmer whites, as in <6500k, would allow you to increase the warm areas of the spectrum without adding more unnecessary blue. Find me someone to build an emitter with some UV/near UV, two blues, and lots of warmer whites and I would buy one to play with. This just looks like it would be far too blue for me.

 

[bhazard451]

I for one think the (4) Leg should be taken off the table.... Keep it (the ordering process) simple and commit to a 5 leg version.

While you don't want to go crazy with the colors, it is painfully obvious that the fixtures that are limited to the 4 colors were are taling about... well they somewhat suck with regard to the way the light looks (to me at least) no matter what ratios are dialed up.

I would rather clutter a multichip with many colors to give me options and use MUTLIPLE chips for coverage if needed, instead of settling on a chip lacking in color that has to have traditional emitters mounted around it... back to the disco if you will.


Not to insult anybody, but I find it somewhat odd. Why go through all this trouble to produce pretty much what doesn't already work with discrete emitters to begin with?

I think the 5 leg multichip is much closer to something I would be ready to order, and use 4 of over my 120 gallon tank. It is still lacking in whites though. I will never run Epistars above 10k again, as they simply do not look as good as using warm white and neutral variants mixed with Royal Blue and Violet.

If Ac-rc would make the chip for me with 6500k and 3500k instead, 2:1 blue to white and some violets I think I'd try two of them on one side of my tank. Actually, I'd order all 4 to help the group buy.

 

[gtfcniles]

Copy and paste the following format with your input:

100W (5 leg)
1) 20 x 445nm
2) 20 x 10000K
3) 20 x 420nm
4) 20 x 455nm
5) 20 x 15000K


I still think that 4 and 5 should be swapped around, keep the UV in the middle (420nm):

100W (5 leg)
1) 20 x 445nm
2) 20 x 10000K
3) 20 x 420nm
4) 20 x 15000K
5) 20 x 455nm

The mix with the higher wave length blue and the 15k leds should mix very well with the royal blues with the 10k.

 

[gtfcniles]

Someone mentioned wanting UV, I'm assuming that is meant the 395-405nm range.. Just wanted to comment that it is not effective at producing fluorescence, I have a couple of 395s and you have to get it right by a coral (in this case neon green austaliensis monti) to produce much effect, where the 420nm has a MUCH more profound effect, IE the same as the UV produces at 2" but from 12"!

ronreef: Did you look at lassef's photos of his 100w hybrid testing, with lenses? (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=20234869&postcount=676) If you look you can see the color seperation at the edges. While in this example it is not too prominent, consider if you have the white on one side and the blue on the other, rather than white between two blue, the seperation will be at least twice what it is in that photo. I maintain that bridging two non-adjacent bars is trivial, and we are assuming it will be possible (IE the voltage bins must match perfectly for different color bin chips)

Either way I'll be interested in several of these, I'd commit to 5. I'm assuming the price will be around $150 each given the level of 420nm we are wanting.

Thanks for the info on the UV, that is very interesting I didn't know this.

 

[marspeed]

it's Monday 3:36 AM in Hong Kong now

 

[gtfcniles]

it's Monday 3:36 AM in Hong Kong now

There are no timezones in the world wide web :spin1:

 

[tronyony]

I´m sorry that I did not was able to show this link for you before you order. Look at the pictures in this thread - is in Swedish but pictures are international - you can get some ideas from this.

Sincerely Lasse

Lasse,

That's great, thanks for the link. I will definitely look at doing the fans recessed. I havent ordered the aluminum yet since I want to see if anybody local has it. I like his 3 spread idea.

What gauge wire do you guys use to connect the LED's?

Thanks,
Tony

 

[Lassef]

Lasse,

That's great, thanks for the link. I will definitely look at doing the fans recessed. I havent ordered the aluminum yet since I want to see if anybody local has it. I like his 3 spread idea.

What gauge wire do you guys use to connect the LED's?

Thanks,
Tony

I normaly use 0.5 - 0.7 mm single wires - if you use stranded wires you probably need 1 mm2.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[zone]

I'm really interested in the custom multichips that are in the process, had a final chip make up been decided on? What is the ordering process?
Will these custom chips be the High power type that can be overdriven?

 

[Lassef]

Is there anyone among those who use metal halide advocating that they should use 6500 K bulbs and then supplement with Actinic T5 in the ratio 1 watt MH 6500 K to 2 watt T5 Actinic?

I do not think so - I have not heard of anyone advocating this at least.

Yet there are many who just advocating this for the LED system. There is no rational or biological explanation for this. The only explanation for this I can see is the fact that when the LED was first used there was only white LEDs in Kelvin temperatures around 6500 K. Salt water aquarists who started using these found that the light was too yellow compared to what they were used to. They began to add the blue in the form of Royal Blue and found that they needed two pieces of RB to 1 piece 6500 white to get the light they were used of by MH of high Kelvins. What happened then was that the amount of blue totally washed out the other colors like yellow, green and red. The answer to that was when adding sources with a lot of these colors, that is 3500 K white and monochromatic sources of different colors.

With the white LED of high Kelvin temperatures you do not need the 2:1 ratio and do not get the other colors washed out. I have shown a lot of pictures from my aquarium in this thread. They are taken without flash and without any changes in Photo Shop and the show exelent red, yellow and green colors. My ratio is 1 RB to 2 white.

In this "super" chip, I do not think we shall mix in any K below 10 000 K.

I have experiences with Epileds and Epistars over 10 000 K from AC-RC and my experiences with them for nearly 1.5 years (and a lot of chip) is very good. Remember that it is not Epistar or Epiled that puts on the phosphorus that give the K-temperature - that is done by different manufactures and different sellers has different manufactures and the white chip from AC-RC has been very good in my experience.

Not to insult anybody either but some of us is not satisfied with the way the 3 watts system work and want of different reason take a different way. In this thread, at least I try to discuss with others of the same interest and share with you the experience I gained through the use of these multi-chip for 1.5 years and also try to explain why I have gone this route. I'm not trying to dissuade anyone from using 3 watt chip - just try to explain why I use these multi-chip and how I use them.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[ronreef]

Information gathered thus far:

Options for a 100W (5 leg) multichip multichannel panel:

1) 20 x 445nm
2) 20 x 455nm
3) 20 x 420nm
4) 20 x 10000K
5) 20 x 15000K

1) 20 x 445nm
2) 20 x 10000K
3) 20 x 420nm
4) 20 x 15000K
5) 20 x 455nm

Options for a 100W (6 leg) multichip multichannel panel:

100W (6 leg)
1) 20 x 445nm
2) 20 x 455nm
3) 20 x 420nm
4) 20 x 10000K
5) 10 x 15000K
6) 10 x 660nm

Options for a 95W (4 leg) multichip multichannel panel:

95W (4 leg)
1) 20 - whites ("10000k"), 5 - red
2) 20 - 420nm
3) 25 "royal blue" 455nm
4) 25 "blue" 445nm

 

[ronreef]

Look at the picture.

Its a multichip with white, blue, white, blue and so on. But I´m not sure if it is a defect lens or not. I have not seen it before and I have not hear anyone report the same. The picture is taken in air and I did not see the effect when I tested the chip in 4 meters of water. so I´m not sure.

Sincerely Lasse

Near the edges, there is obvious light separation. Within the main inner light fill there is no evidence of separation. Blending is superb! Maybe against a white background it would be much easier to see separation within the main fill. Personally, I'm not worried about the edges. The separation at the edges could easily be a prism effect as a result of the lens and reflector. According to Lasse's test in water, it was no longer evident.

 

[marspeed]

since we are on the subject what type of lens is everyone using single convex or double convex and does anyone think it makes a difference

 

[jerpa]

With the white LED of high Kelvintemperaturesyou do not needthe2:1 ratio and do not get the other colors washed out. I have shown a lot of pictures from my aquarium in this thread. They are taken without flash and without any changes in Photo Shop and the show exelent red, yellow and green colors. My ratio is 1 RB to 2 white.

In this "super" chip, I do not think we shall mix in any K below 10 000 K.

I understand you reasoning but then why do we have an emitter dominated by blue? This ratio would be just as washed out no?

 

[tomservo]

Information gathered thus far:
Options for a 95W (4 leg) multichip multichannel panel:

95W (4 leg)
1) 20 - whites ("10000k"), 5 - red
2) 20 - 420nm
3) 25 "royal blue" 455nm
4) 25 "blue" 445nm

This isn't possible; everything needs to be in multiples of 10, because the chips are 10 rows of 10.

It would need to be something more like:

1) 40 whites (20 10000k 20 15000k or what have you)
2) 20 420nm
3) 20 445nm
4) 20 455nm

Although I favor:
1) 20 10000k
2) 40 blues (20 445 + 20 455)
3) 20 15000k
4) 20 420nm

 

[sfsuphysics]

Your color input doesn't add up to 100

Whoops, I was looking at the 5 channel one, noticed i had 5 colors so... well ok I screwed up


1) 25 - whites ("10000k"), 5 - red
2) 20 - 420nm
3) 25 "royal blue" 455nm
4) 25 "blue" 445nm

There!

Why does every refer to 420nm as "UV" call it actinic for crying out loud!

 

[bhazard451]

Is there anyone among those who use metal halide advocating that they should use 6500 K bulbs and then supplement with Actinic T5 in the ratio 1 watt MH 6500 K to 2 watt T5 Actinic?

I do not think so - I have not heard of anyone advocating this at least.

Yet there are many who just advocating this for the LED system. There is no rational or biological explanation for this.

The spectral plot of a 6500k MH bulb could be modified easily by different ballasts alone. That's like saying you could give a 250w 10k bulb 2 watts and it would match the spectrum output of one of the 10k epistar leds in the chip. Totally different approach.

-With the white LED of high Kelvin temperatures you do not need the 2:1 ratio and do not get the other colors washed out. I have shown a lot of pictures from my aquarium in this thread. They are taken without flash and without any changes in Photo Shop and the show exelent red, yellow and green colors. My ratio is 1 RB to 2 white.

I've seen colors wash out firsthand with the use of only 10k and higher epistars. If I didn't, I would otherwise be in agreement with you. Unless a multichip somehow makes the same led perform differently, I'd have to assume the same would apply. At a ratio of 2 white to RB, aren't you just trying to do the same thing that would be shown at 1:1 with some warmer whites?

-In this "super" chip, I do not think we shall mix in any K below 10 000 K.

-I have experiences with Epileds and Epistars over 10 000 K from AC-RC and my experiences with them for nearly 1.5 years (and a lot of chip) is very good.

So you haven't tried the 6500k or 3500k? How do you know you couldn't achieve the same or better results? I've used those leds (not multichip), and they look fantastic when mixed with 10k leds. Your 10k preference is more of a personal preference, which is fine. Not everyone has the same preference.

Ron's 5 leg chip seems like the best way to go for the majority if only one type of custom chip can be produced, which wouldn't be good for you according to your preference.