If you go to MeanWell's site and read the datasheets, it looks like all of their drivers are PWM output.
Minimalistic multichip DIY LED build
- Thread starter maglofster
- Start date
If you go to MeanWell's site and read the datasheets, it looks like all of their drivers are PWM output.
TropTrea
New member
@ 007Bond: I first did a test module. I did not know how much heat my basic design was completed. The test module consist of one 30-watt chip and three 10 W RB 455 nm.
First design
Second design
My design did this by far and I decided to make each module at 90 watts and then have one of them 10 000 K, 3 pieces of 16 000 K and 3 pieces of RB. 20 000 K was not available at the first order. The only RB was available was 455 nm. I want to have as much variety as possible so my first idée was to control every three combination separately. Had to abandon the idea due to lack of suitable drivers then. So in my head structure is controlled RB and whites separately. Nowadays there are more combinations of multi-chip and if I would do if my design today, I would use as many different chips I could. One of the members of the Swedish marine community has also designed a type of card runs where you can control 6-7 pieces 3 Watt or 2 pieces of 10 or 20 Watt multi chip. His card contains 16 separate drivers where you can have 16 * 2 piece 10-watt, 8 * 2 pieces of 20 watts and control them independently (well almost) of each other. This further increases the possibilities.
I later supplemented with 10 pieces Cree RB just to increase the diversity further. I can if I want to also use these as moonlight.
I´ll try to sort this out so it makes sense. First, the chip´s specification.
30-34 V is the the chip´s Forward Voltage at different current strengths. At a minimum, it is 30 V and at most (maximum current) 34 V. FV is the voltages that are needed to diode (LED = Light Emitting Diode) is to conduct and excrete light. 1.5 a is the maximum current that the chip can handle.
The driver´s specification: First, this driver can be used for both constant voltage and constant current. power LED should be driven with a constant current. This means that the driver sends out, say, 1.3 A. Then, it adjust the desired voltage so that everything works. That is, it adjusts the voltage to the chip´s FV. Then suddenly the diode current-carrying and current 1.3 A can go through the diode. The driver keeps the voltages at FV just to provide 1.3 A through the diode.
When you read 24-48 V, it is between these voltages that the driver is able to maintain the constant current of 1.3 A.
I am also confused about what 43.2-52.8 V stands for. The only explanation I have is that it applies when using the driver as a constant voltage source.
There are two main parts in the control of a driver. How do I control the driver and how controls the driver in its turn the chip? First-10V is a way to control the driver, PWM is a another way. Because it is a constant current drive it can not control the chip in its turn with the voltage. Remember - the voltage under the chip´s FV nothing happens - no light.
The driver must therefore control the the chip´s power with variable current or PWM.
Sincerely Lasse
How your driver control the chip I do not know. I believe it is through current adjustment
Let me try to clarify this up a little bit.
In constant current mode the The Driver will maintain a constant current regardless of the resistance load it will see from the diode. So if the load is set for 1.3 Amps and the resistance created by the LED is 26.15 Ohms it will output 34 Volts. The LED would actualy be running at 1.3 Amps X 34 Volts or 44.2 Watts
If the resistance of the LED were to decrease to 23.1 Ohms (caused by heat build up over time then the driver would automaticly adjust the output voltage to 30 Volts and still maintain at the 1.3 Amp load . The LED would then be actualy operating at 1.3 Amps at 30 Volts or 39 Watts.
The voltage adjustment is actualy adjusting the maximium voltage that the. driver allowed to output. So lets take this and use a different diode which runs runs at a different effective resistance and current to get 50 watts of power.
If the LED runns at 1.15 Amps to create 50 Watts of Light at 43.5 Volts then it has an effective resistance of 39 ohms. If for some reason the resistance were to increase to say 42.9 ohms, the driver would continue to try and maintain 1.15 Amps and output 49.33 Volts to the LED. since 1.15 Amps time 49.33 Volts would mean the LED is running at 55 Watts. This exceeds the rating of the LED so you do not want this to happen. Instead you adjust the maximium voltage outpu adjustment to 43.5 volts. Therefore your limiting the output voltage of the driver to 43.5 volts. In return with a resistance of 42.9 ohms at 43.5 volts the current being outputed would be reduced to 986 ma. This would prevent blowing out the LED's by running it only 43 Watts instead of driving it at 55 Watts.
Now looking at the specs you listed for your LED's 1.5 Amps with a voltage of 30 to 34 Volts, you can run this LED at a limit of 1.5 Amps X 34 Volts = 51 Watts. To be safe I would want to limit my votage to 33 volts and my current to 1.45 Amps to allow a maximium of 49.3 Watts. I personaly do not think this is the ideal match for your LED's on the saftey end. however it is functional as pure current limiting Driver. The cances of the effective resistance rising is much less likely than it oof the resistance dropping from heat.
Punkalflufen
New member
Ok Lassef and all the other brains out there...
I have had to cancel my driver order (no customer service what so ever, well it was there but it was like talking to a brick wall and :deadhorse: and finally i got sick of repeating myself) so bottom line is I need new drivers as i cant find the same drivers anywhere. :worried:
I am still getting the GHL Profilux plus II and would like to get the best control possible, can someone find a solution for me? Please...
I have been looking and the LEDControl4 passive could be and option to get the led's to dim 100%, that could be an option but at the moment anything that my controller can dim would make me happy, if i have to have the plugs on a separate timer that's ok.
On a lighter not my 20w LED heat sinks have arrived :bounce1:
As you can see they apparently have a rating of 65w so more than enough overhead for the 20w drivers i plan to run on them.
I have had to cancel my driver order (no customer service what so ever, well it was there but it was like talking to a brick wall and :deadhorse: and finally i got sick of repeating myself) so bottom line is I need new drivers as i cant find the same drivers anywhere. :worried:
I am still getting the GHL Profilux plus II and would like to get the best control possible, can someone find a solution for me? Please...
I have been looking and the LEDControl4 passive could be and option to get the led's to dim 100%, that could be an option but at the moment anything that my controller can dim would make me happy, if i have to have the plugs on a separate timer that's ok.
On a lighter not my 20w LED heat sinks have arrived :bounce1:
As you can see they apparently have a rating of 65w so more than enough overhead for the 20w drivers i plan to run on them.
TropTrea
New member
Has anyone considered using something like this?
http://cds.linear.com/docs/Datasheet/3476fb.pdf
For a 4 channel driver at 1.5 Amps and up to 36 volts this should be a real cost savor. Considering your spending $200 on just shipping plus at least 10 times as much for a driver. Yes you need a DC power supply to drive this but if get an automotive battery charger power for under $50.00 you could drive 200 Watts of LED's for well under $100 total.
Lassef
Member
Landsailor
New member
Do you have any links to boards using that chip?
I doubt many folks are up to hand soldering a 5mm x 7mm 38 lead (with a ground pad) chip!
Punkalflufen
New member
I live in Australia, I have 12x 20w LED's and 3x EPISTAR 50w LED's
Off to work ill post again when I finish
Off to work ill post again when I finish
TropTrea
New member
These chips come in various configerations at under $8.00 each. Also they can be socket mounted. this particular chip is initialy desoigned for controling LED Auto Headlights but there are roughly 30 different simular chips that are designed for use just at 1.5 Amps max. If you look at the other currents the selection goes into the hundreds some as cheap as $2.00 each.
faisal629
Coolest Member
Hey,
I read through this whole thread for the past couple days! it is extremely interesting and you guys deserve major credit for helping so many reefers! thanks.
Im planing on making a fixture for my 60 gallon cube (2'x2'x2')
here are my 2 options thai i think should work...
#1
1x50watt hybrid 20,000k
4x20watt royal blue
#2
1x100watt hybrid 20,000k
4x10watt royal blue
I really like #2 cause that would only require me to have 2 drivers!
either way i go I will run them on mean well dimmable drivers through an apex.
Im planning on running all the LEDs on this heat sink with dual 92cm fans for cooling
http://www.rapidled.com/drilled-tapped-6-x-20-black-anodized-aluminum-heat-sink/
will that be fine?
Thanks in advance for your help!
I read through this whole thread for the past couple days! it is extremely interesting and you guys deserve major credit for helping so many reefers! thanks.
Im planing on making a fixture for my 60 gallon cube (2'x2'x2')
here are my 2 options thai i think should work...
#1
1x50watt hybrid 20,000k
4x20watt royal blue
#2
1x100watt hybrid 20,000k
4x10watt royal blue
I really like #2 cause that would only require me to have 2 drivers!
either way i go I will run them on mean well dimmable drivers through an apex.
Im planning on running all the LEDs on this heat sink with dual 92cm fans for cooling
http://www.rapidled.com/drilled-tapped-6-x-20-black-anodized-aluminum-heat-sink/
will that be fine?
Thanks in advance for your help!
Last edited:
TropTrea
New member
considering you onky have a 60 gallon tank I think this would be way over kill, and I would worry about hot spots. My personal preference would be with about 48 3 watt LED's using lenses since your only 24" tall. I think you would happier with something like:
3 20 Watt Whites
6 20 Watt Royal Blues
with a driver that allows you adjust the intensity.
or the way I would do it
8 Neutral Whites running at 5 Watts each
18 Royal Blue at 3 Watts each
16 Blues at 3 Watts each.
Lassef
Member
@ faisal629: You should choose a color distribution that you prefer, the distribution that you suggest in both cases gives a pretty blue light in the aquarium. I prefer a more white light during the "daytime" and would then choose a 50 watt chip at 10000-16000 K and 4 pieces of 20-watt RB (2 x 445 and 2 x 455 nm). Lens on 50 watts - 60 degrees. the other without the lens to begin with anyway. Naturally the dimming is preferable because it allows you to adjust your brightness. I would also look at Epistars 50 W chip (they are actually 50 * 2.5 watt LED) and use a little more than 2 A for them to get a higher output
The heatsink I think enough of this - especially with two fans.
My experience with multi-chip of this type is that the normal distribution using the Cree chip (2 RB / 1 white) should be amended to at least 50/50. I use 1 pc RB on 2 white and are happy with the color temperature. I also use active dimming so I can adjust the color temperature.
Sincerely Lasse
The heatsink I think enough of this - especially with two fans.
My experience with multi-chip of this type is that the normal distribution using the Cree chip (2 RB / 1 white) should be amended to at least 50/50. I use 1 pc RB on 2 white and are happy with the color temperature. I also use active dimming so I can adjust the color temperature.
Sincerely Lasse
Punkalflufen
New member
50w W Epistar with 4x 20w is basically 1/3 of my system. I swapped B for 420nm and 405nm LED's on the last 20w string.
faisal629
Coolest Member
I have made 3 watt led fixtures before for my old tank, but for this one i really want to use higher powered led.
Thanks! I really like the blue look, the royal blue will be mostly for sunrise and sunset(long) and dimmed in the daytime. it might of been too much so instead of 50w hybrid i went with normal 20000k, Im going to with...
1 x 50 watt 20,000 k
http://www.ebay.com/itm/50W-20000K-...ultDomain_0&hash=item3f1097b389#ht_1132wt_907
4 x 20 watt royal blue
http://www.ebay.com/itm/EPISTAR-20W...ultDomain_0&hash=item3f11354d64#ht_1669wt_907
can you tell me which mean well dimable drivers will work for these?
I would like the 50w on its own driver and it would be great if all 4 20w can run on one driver. Thanks! :lol2:
TropTrea
New member
the thing with this is everyone has their personal preference for what they like in the amount of blueness. With 3 Watt LED's I like a ratio of 7 Royal blues, 7 Blues, and 4 Neutral White (4,200K). If you go with a higher K rated white then it will give you more blue than the neutral whites so you do need more of them. For some my overall look is too blue while for others used to using 20,000K MH's and Atinics they say I'm too white.
Hearing many people doing multi chip are using 14,000K to 20,000K chip combination the ratio of whites would have to be much higher to get the same look.
Clarence01
New member
Any suggested color combination of 70 x 26 x 28 inch? Mainly for SPS
Lassef
Member
It is possible that my English is not so good but this is exactly what I thought I wrote.
Sincerely Lasse
faisal629
Coolest Member
Hey Lassef,
can you tell me which mean well dimable drivers will work for these?
I would like the 50w on its own driver and it would be great if all 4 20w can run on one driver. Thanks! :lol2:
1 x 50 watt 20,000 k
http://www.ebay.com/itm/50W-20000K-H...#ht_1132wt_907
4 x 20 watt royal blue
http://www.ebay.com/itm/EPISTAR-20W-...#ht_1669wt_907
can you tell me which mean well dimable drivers will work for these?
I would like the 50w on its own driver and it would be great if all 4 20w can run on one driver. Thanks! :lol2:
1 x 50 watt 20,000 k
http://www.ebay.com/itm/50W-20000K-H...#ht_1132wt_907
4 x 20 watt royal blue
http://www.ebay.com/itm/EPISTAR-20W-...#ht_1669wt_907
Lassef
Member
Now I have not much experience of Mean Wells drivers but if you look at their fact sheet, probably HLG-60H-36B or HLG-80H-48B will work for "50 watt". However, I am not sure that they work with the dim to 0. If this driver (LCM-60 series) is the one I think (I have a similar, but with a different trade name), it goes to dim to 0 but you will be running at 1400 mA and then get out only about 47-48 watts from the chip. It may also be that it just fits into the European grid.
HLN-60H-36B works even likely, as well as LPF-60D-36. If you read the data sheets shall all be able to dim to 10% but then one needs a breaking function. LCM - 60 goes to dim to 0, but probably only works from 185 V AC.
In the case of 4 x 20 watts would probably HLG-100H-48B function. Meanwell does not specify a constant current region for HLG-100 but I think that it's working as HLG-80 which now set a constant current region. but HLG-80-42B have a to low region. If you want to 1.7 A instead of 2, it works probably with HLG-80H-48.
LPF-90D-48 probably also works and gives 1.88 A.
All these drivers for 20 watts require 3-4 chips in series.
I want to emphasize that I have no personal experience of these drivers - I've just checked the Mean Wells datasheet.
Sincerely Lasse
HLN-60H-36B works even likely, as well as LPF-60D-36. If you read the data sheets shall all be able to dim to 10% but then one needs a breaking function. LCM - 60 goes to dim to 0, but probably only works from 185 V AC.
In the case of 4 x 20 watts would probably HLG-100H-48B function. Meanwell does not specify a constant current region for HLG-100 but I think that it's working as HLG-80 which now set a constant current region. but HLG-80-42B have a to low region. If you want to 1.7 A instead of 2, it works probably with HLG-80H-48.
LPF-90D-48 probably also works and gives 1.88 A.
All these drivers for 20 watts require 3-4 chips in series.
I want to emphasize that I have no personal experience of these drivers - I've just checked the Mean Wells datasheet.
Sincerely Lasse
Lassef
Member
As mentioned before - everything depends on your personal preferences. Just remember that if you use 10 000 K - 20 000 K white chip, a distribution of 1 blue to 1 white or 1 blue to 2 white to prefer instead of the normal 2 blue to 1 white. In a biological point of wiew you get a lot of blue wavelength`s with the 10 000/16 000/20 000 K and does not need som much of RB.
Sincerely Lasse
