Minimalistic multichip DIY LED build

[RiddleEagle18]

So, it seems eBay seller ac-rc is receptive to a custom 50W panel. I wrote ac-rc stating my interest in a blue custom 50W panel with both 445nm,455nm and UV chips on one 50 or 60W panel. He seemed interested.

I was wondering about a custom 100W multichip panel built this way:
20W:445nm
20W:455nm
20W:UV
20W:10000K
20W:16000K

or

20W:445nm
20W:455nm
10W:UV
25W:10000K
25W:16000K

What do you think?

Ron

If you get him to do this let me know! Im trying for these exact colors with multiple panels. I would love to have it set all in 1!

 

[RiddleEagle18]

Even better if he can make 2 connections allowing the Blues/UV and the Whites to be run on separate controllers but all mounted on the same chip.

 

[ac0go]

These would be great with two connections on one chip. I have considered a few of these on my 40 breeder.

 

[tomservo]

It should be possible to have as many as 3 or 4 channels based on how those multichips work - certainly 3 channels is possible because you can get RGB in the same sort of package. I've been trying to find a company that would do this sort of thing for a while myself. I'd be up for at least one. Unfortunately they'd have to be arranged very particularly to work right if there are seperate channels, so I think one channel is a more viable and probably much less expensive option.

Basically you need to have each series string be composed of the same number and type (and voltage bin per each color). Even a more basic version with just 453 blue 10k white and 420s would be great.

It'd be nice to specify the power bin as well, I'm not sure what sort he usually gets (I have a 60w hybrid on the way) but it would be worth extra to me to get the best or nearly so. The higher the efficiency the easier to cool and of course, more light. Or if he can get bridgelux chips for the blues, the BXCD4545450-H1 (H1 bin) is almost as efficient as the Cree blues. I have reason to believe bridgelux also have higher bins of blues as well.

 

[tfrizz80]

So, it seems eBay seller ac-rc is receptive to a custom 50W panel. I wrote ac-rc stating my interest in a blue custom 50W panel with both 445nm,455nm and UV chips on one 50 or 60W panel. He seemed interested.

I was wondering about a custom 100W multichip panel built this way:
20W:445nm
20W:455nm
20W:UV
20W:10000K
20W:16000K

or

20W:445nm
20W:455nm
10W:UV
25W:10000K
25W:16000K

What do you think?

Ron

Seems to me this would be the way to go. Easier build...less drivers. I think multichips have neen building up to.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

How buckets what a good thread. Thanks to all that have contributed. I know from "co-running" the algae scrubber thread that when it gets this big, you get people that go a few pages in and then skip to the end and re-ask all the previously answered questions. So here's payback time LOL.

I was linked to this from another thread for someone's 3x 100W build so I looked up a bunch of the ebay links and other sites to see what's out there, but I really want to nail down what I "should" do, given the fact that I don't have much experience designing LED fixtures for display tank, only for algae scrubbers...

I would like to replace the T5HO lighting on a couple tanks, one is my personal 120 (2x2x4), the others are tanks I maintain - one is a custom 144, the other is a stock 200. To keep it simple for now, I'll ignore mine and the 200 and focus on the 144.

Tank in question is a custom Miracles 144 and is 66 x 21 and 24" deep. It's in a dentist's office and is a mixed reef, nothing complicated - monti cap, mushrooms, candy canes, trumpet, zoas, yellow polyps, digis, tri-color valida, war coral, clam, acan, etc. Might want to get some fancier corals going, maybe some more SPS.

Tank a few months ago, with flash

Without

I have a nice overhead area to work with:

There's about 2'6" from the top rim of the tank to the ceiling above the tank.

Right now, the fixture that is in there is an 8-lamp Nova Extreme T5HO with 5 ATI Blue Plus, 1 Giesemann Aquablue Plus, and 2 ATI Purple Plus lamps. The fixture hangs about 10" off the top of the water. <<EDIT>> These are 48" 54W T5HO lamps

Growth is pretty good, the big red monti is scrolling up like crazy, war coral and candy cane growing well. Nothing spectacular, but then again I don't care to have to frag out things every month.

I would like to have at least some dimming capability, if I can I would like to have it controlled via an Ardunio or Reef Angel controller.

I have familiarity with your standard 3W arrays, did quite a bit of reading up on the board that TheFishMan65 makes, I'm almost wondering if that board would be used to power several multichips.

But my primary concern is at least somewhat matching the color/intensity that the tank currently has, without going overboard, and without costing a great deal.

So I'm thinking an array of 20-50W chips down the middle of the tank, then a bar in front and back of some other 3W mixed colors. The concept being that the mutli-chips supply your CW and RB, and the 3W bars can "fill in the gaps" - maybe some cyan, true violet, a red or two (maybe, maybe not), warm whites, NWs, etc (I'm recalling the "emporer has no clothes" LED thread right now...)

I could also do 2 rows of multichips and 2 or 3 rows of 3W chips to even out the distribution.

Anyways, you get the idea.

So for a tank with that footprint, 66 x 21 and 24 deep (144 gallons), mixed reef / some SPS, what size multichip should I use, and what mixture and/or configuration might be the best route?

I'll keep reading through the thread in the meantime. I'm up to post 400 or so.

 

[JohnnyAirtime]

Even better if he can make 2 connections allowing the Blues/UV and the Whites to be run on separate controllers but all mounted on the same chip.

That would be ideal... but, it's not possible (per manufacturer)

What is possible, is to use an RGB Driver and Multi-Chip... but, your now limited to only 3 colors. For example, I'm using a 12,000K, 460nm and 440nm chip as my build for 80W and 160W remote controlled dimmable pendants.

See thread here; http://www.sandiegoreefs.com/forums...100W-120%B0-optic-tons-of-shimmer.-Interested

You'll be able to use the remote, to either shut down each color independently... or, run a multitude of colors by mixing/matching the three colors on the RGB chip (of coarse, you can also dim the light to your needs). And, I've been using those three same colors on my 240Gal Reef for a year, with GREAT results (I've tested other color combos, and nothing has compared to visible color, or been acceptable to my personal tastes).

I'll be ordering some samples of what I'm "designing" directly with the China manufacturer in the next week, so 10-15days from now I should have examples to show in both a smaller 80W version and the larger 160W version. I'll (eventually) be replacing my (4) 120W wirelessly dimmable (3 color) panels with four of the 160W pendants. Along the way, checking PAR and other stats for curious eyes.

 

[JohnnyAirtime]

...................

I was wondering about a custom 100W multichip panel built this way:
20W:445nm
20W:455nm
20W:UV
20W:10000K
20W:16000K

or

20W:445nm
20W:455nm
10W:UV
25W:10000K
25W:16000K

What do you think?

Ron

IMHO - I think your 445 and 455 are too close in wavelength. No need to waste the ability to add some separation in color... as you're almost going to overlap visible color in your whites (the closer to 20,000K you get, the more blue the white light will look).

I'd personally separate the color in the chip...

Another FYI; Just don't waste your time with 420nm or 410nm. It's considered UV spectrum and in my personal experiences, it doesn't give off enough lumen to change or add to your PAR values. They barely give off enough to even purple up your coral colors and the UV they are trying to push deep into the water is filtered out fairly quick (due to their lack of "punch" or lumen output). You'd need to do just the opposite of what your thinking to get them to do any good... meaning, use 25W UV chips, to get more depth.

This taken directly from Orphek;
The DIF 100/50/30 does not use the UV and red LEDs but offers a slight improvement in lumens per watt.

As mentioned, I've settled on a "happy medium" with 12,000K/460nm/440nm which shows a great coloration in the tank (not too purple, not too yellow) and provides great growth.

Orphek has been using 6 colors in their multi-chip DIF pendant, yet PAR values have been down due to the lack of lumen output. Read more here; http://orphek.com/led/orphek-products/dif-pendants/

 

[triggers_150]

So I have been looking for a dual channel 100 watt chip but when I emailed ac-rc all he came back with is he could mix colors up in the chip but not dual channels. I did find this chip on ebay as well which linked back to this web site but they are a lot more expensive then what I bought from ac-rc.

http://www.proledsupply.com/contents/en-us/d9_HIGH_POWER_LED_50_WATT_AND_100_WATT.html

 

[RiddleEagle18]

So I have been looking for a dual channel 100 watt chip but when I emailed ac-rc all he came back with is he could mix colors up in the chip but not dual channels. I did find this chip on ebay as well which linked back to this web site but they are a lot more expensive then what I bought from ac-rc.

http://www.proledsupply.com/contents/en-us/d9_HIGH_POWER_LED_50_WATT_AND_100_WATT.html

very nice. Not all that more expensive than the 100w Ac-RC is selling. I just like the idea of having all the leds in 1 chip. It should make the color blending pretty much unnoticeable.

 

[RiddleEagle18]

Another FYI; Just don't waste your time with 420nm or 410nm. It's considered UV spectrum and in my personal experiences, it doesn't give off enough lumen to change or add to your PAR values.

Ive seen some pics with just 420nm-405nm lights on in their tanks and the corals pop? Not so much about par value for me.

 

[JohnnyAirtime]

Ive seen some pics with just 420nm-405nm lights on in their tanks and the corals pop? Not so much about par value for me.

Understood... (your not about PAR).

But understand, a tank with ONLY 420-405nm lit up, won't be washed out by the rest of the colors on the multi-chip. With a multi-chip, you can't turn off the other colors (unless it's an RGB chip), so your "coral pop" won't be so pronounced.

To get the POP your looking for, you'd NEED the PAR (lumen output) of the UV spectrum to NOT be washed out. So, yes... if you want that pop you'll need to be concerned with your overall wattage of the lower spectrum LEDs. Otherwise, it'll be so washed out, that you won't notice the UVs and it'll be in a sense... a waste of time and chip space.

If you want that deep purple pop, add 650nm to the chip. It'll blend with the blues and offer a purple color up... and still retain higher PAR values due to the red's ability to provide higher lumen output then the UV.

Make sense?

 

[RiddleEagle18]

Understood... (your not about PAR).

But understand, a tank with ONLY 420-405nm lit up, won't be washed out by the rest of the colors on the multi-chip. With a multi-chip, you can't turn off the other colors (unless it's an RGB chip), so your "coral pop" won't be so pronounced.

To get the POP your looking for, you'd NEED the PAR (lumen output) of the UV spectrum to NOT be washed out. So, yes... if you want that pop you'll need to be concerned with your overall wattage of the lower spectrum LEDs. Otherwise, it'll be so washed out, that you won't notice the UVs and it'll be in a sense... a waste of time and chip space.

If you want that deep purple pop, add 650nm to the chip. It'll blend with the blues and offer a purple color up... and still retain higher PAR values due to the red's ability to provide higher lumen output then the UV.

Make sense?

Thanks that makes sense.

I didnt mean par wasnt important, just only in relation to the UV lights adding any to the overall equation. I see what your saying with the washout on the multi-chip though.

I may still choose to run them on a separate chip that I can use in the AM and PM when the whites arent on yet. Ill probably start with the chip in the previous post or something similar and try out the UV's or the 650 you suggested later.

 

[mr.wilson]

Another FYI; Just don't waste your time with 420nm or 410nm. It's considered UV spectrum and in my personal experiences, it doesn't give off enough lumen to change or add to your PAR values. They barely give off enough to even purple up your coral colors and the UV they are trying to push deep into the water is filtered out fairly quick (due to their lack of "punch" or lumen output). You'd need to do just the opposite of what your thinking to get them to do any good... meaning, use 25W UV chips, to get more depth.

Don't be misled by the term "UV". Actinic light is 420nm, so it isn't as new and exotic as it sounds. Actinic light is clearly visible if you use enough chips. 410-430nm chips are the most expensive so you usually see just a few in even large fixtures. Their impact on fluorescence is quite significant however. Corals that appear green in (465nm) royal blue light can fluoresce orange in 420nm "UV" light.

With good optics and appropriate wattage, PAR is very easy to achieve. It's spectrum that is the real challenge. I like to oversize the multichip and dim it down to the desired intensity and spectrum.

Red is a hard chip to add due to the lower voltage (28v vs. 36v) and overpowering nature. You often end up with a pink look.

 

[JohnnyAirtime]

Don't be misled by the term "UV". Actinic light is 420nm, so it isn't as new and exotic as it sounds. Actinic light is clearly visible if you use enough chips. 410-430nm chips are the most expensive so you usually see just a few in even large fixtures. Their impact on fluorescence is quite significant however. Corals that appear green in (465nm) royal blue light can fluoresce orange in 420nm "UV" light.

With good optics and appropriate wattage, PAR is very easy to achieve. It's spectrum that is the real challenge. I like to oversize the multichip and dim it down to the desired intensity and spectrum.

Red is a hard chip to add due to the lower voltage (28v vs. 36v) and overpowering nature. You often end up with a pink look.

I said UV... but had it initially listed as "purple" in my post. As I try to use terms most often noted by reef enthusiasts. I understand where true UV is on the spectrum. And that was more-or-less my point, and where I was going about using "enough chips"... to provide ample output of that color chip, it requires more then most understand to give the fluorescence you speak of. Not enough, and it's not going to give the look most desire. Simple equation, if you understand UV and Deep Purple chip colors just don't overpower the whites and higher wavelength blues (in a 1:1 ratio). As well, it's the first to be filtered out so-to-speak in the water column (like red) due it's lack of punch (wattage or power). "Filtered" isn't the word I'm looking for... but, I think the point is made.

I don't like using so much of that spectrum, just to get the fluorescence. It's not super advantageous to coral growth, just color pop. The "happy medium" approach is good, but not understood by too many.

I've tested with red... needing just 6 per 55 chip panel (as an example ratio), to add the purple hue and get lots of pop. Even the red corals (like mushrooms) seemed to color up a bit. Being they give off quite a bit of lumen, you don't need many to get the color your looking for. Quite the opposite in comparison to the lower side of the spectrum of Indigo, Purple, UV and trying to achieve the same "look" or "pop" in the tank.

I agree... I like to overpower, and dim down. Same with my car stereo.
You can always turn it down when overpowered, but when underpowered... you can never turn it up!

 

[ronreef]

IMHO - I think your 445 and 455 are too close in wavelength. No need to waste the ability to add some separation in color... as you're almost going to overlap visible color in your whites (the closer to 20,000K you get, the more blue the white light will look).

I'd personally separate the color in the chip...

Another FYI; Just don't waste your time with 420nm or 410nm. It's considered UV spectrum and in my personal experiences, it doesn't give off enough lumen to change or add to your PAR values. They barely give off enough to even purple up your coral colors and the UV they are trying to push deep into the water is filtered out fairly quick (due to their lack of "punch" or lumen output). You'd need to do just the opposite of what your thinking to get them to do any good... meaning, use 25W UV chips, to get more depth.

My purpose for adding UV was for more for growth than for coloring up. I see your point. Not worth the space due to lack of power/punch.

 

[RiddleEagle18]

I emailed the guy from proledsupply. these are the specs for the chip.

Forward Voltage: 34V

Luminouse Flux: 7000-8000LM

Temperature Color: 10000-20000K/440-460nm

Forward Current: 2800mA

Power Dissipation: 100W

Chip: Bridgelux



Something I am a bit confused about. It says these can be run blues/whites on separate channels. So what would be needed from each controller. Would the forward voltage be 34V blues with 1400mA and 34V whites with 1400mA?

I am still waiting on the answer via email from the seller.

 

[ronreef]

I was able to convince ac-rc to do a 50W blue multichip. 25W:445-447nm and 25W:455-457nm. Those are the chips he had to work with at the moment which is fine with me. That combined with 10000K and 16000K should be good enough.

 

[Lassef]

My purpose for adding UV was for more for growth than for coloring up. I see your point. Not worth the space due to lack of power/punch.

At least in terms of 420 nm, it has significance for chlorophyll a, which has its blue absorption top right there. We must not fool ourselves by either PAR or lumen measurements. Certainly not Lumen. Lumen is just a measure of the radiation that is optimized for human color perception and has nothing to do with the biological importance to various plants and algae. PAR is a better method but most PAR meter does not consider the blue wavelengths real power in terms of photosynthesis. The human eye is poor on perceiving blue wavelengths actual radiation force as we often find that there is no "punch" in particular at wavelengths below 450 nm. For photosynthesis, however, the "the punch" just at these wavelengths.

According to fluorescence, probably no one knows the true biological function of the fluorescence of corals. In principle, fluorescence consists of a mechanism that takes high-energy short wavelengths and sends back a wavelength of less energy (longer wavelength than the incident light).

In this process, the coral get an energy boost - where does it go and what does it do - I do not know. However, fluorescence is extremely common among many corals. If a particular phenomenon is common in different organisms - then I allways suspect that it has a significant biological importance. What biological significance it has - I do not know, just that there are common causes me to suspect that it matters in a way or two.

LED technology offers us such a powerful tool so I do not think we understand the full extent yet. Just that we can put all the energy in a very narrow wavelength range (usually plus - minus 20 nm) allows us to use artificial light for production in a completely different way than when we work with full-spectrum sources. I show my table from my post 1082 again - because I think it is from here we must draw inspiration if we want to optimize for our corals as much as possible. And remember - just because the white light whash out the blue wavelengths of our vision - they are still there and can be used by various substances in photosynthesis. The white light is needed both for our aesthetic sense but also that it includes wavelengths that have biological purposes other than for photosynthesis.

Once again - for most corals - red wavelenghts probably is not so important becaus red wavelenghts disappear rather fast in the watercolumn in their natural habitants.

Sincererly Lasse

Summary: (from Photosynthesis, 6th Edition" by Hall & Rao (1999.
Cambridge University Press)

Chlorophylls:

Chlorophyll a .... 420nm and 660nm .... in all higher plants and algae
Chlorophyll b .... 435nm and 643nm .... in all higher plants and green algae
Chlorophyll c .... 445nm and 625nm .... in diatoms and brown algae
Chlorophyll d .... 450nm and 690nm .... in red algae

Carotenoids:

beta-carotene .... 425nm, 450nm, 480nm ... in higher plants and most algae
alpha-carotene ... 420nm, 440nm, 480nm ... in most plants and some algae
Luteol ........... 425nm, 445nm, 475nm ... in green and red algae and higher plants

Violaxanthol ..... 425nm, 450nm, 475nm ... in diatoms and brown algae

Phycobilins (water soluble):

Phycoerythrins ... 490nm, 546nm, 576nm ... in red algae and some
cyanobacteria

Phycocyanins ..... 618nm ................. in some red algae and
cyanobacteria

Allophycocyanins . 650nm ................. cyanobacteria and red algae

According to chlorophyll b have I seen other figures at the blue part - 450 nm.

Chlorophyll c is probably the most interesting chlorophyll for us because it occurs (along with chlorophyll a) in dinoflagellates and diatoms (the most common Zooxanthellae´s of corals)

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

Well I powered through the entire thread...got a lot of good info.

I'm looking at a few options, one would be to just go with somthing like jtrasap did

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=20326937&postcount=895

Or something like blesk did

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=20394790&postcount=1098

Or maybe a little of both, like blesk's with more multichips.

Any advantages or disadvantages to using one large chip vs more multichips?

I've paroused several of the ebay links, ac-rc, aallion2008, etc...

What's the difference between these 2 100W 20,000K chips?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/100W-20000K...978?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f0f68e002

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAP...&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:US:1123#ht_2573wt_1270

$124 vs $33, am I missing something?