Minimalistic multichip DIY LED build

I am doing a 300W setup which is about 50W too much for my tank. In the future I want to run it off an APEX with PWM. If I buy PWM drivers now is there a way to reduce the power to a set amount and just ON/OFF the system until I get the APEX?

It will depend on what driver you are going to use. But if for some reason you are going to use Meanwell, then the answer is yes. For both P and D series, they can be dimmed via 10 volts and potentiometer.

You need to double check which one is compatible with APEX.
 
I am confused on which Mean Well driver I should get for my (4) 10watt 16000K leds from AC-RC. I would like to dim them with my reefkeeper controller. Thanks in advance

You have to check the specs of your LEDs. You need the forward voltage and the current they are running, then check which driver can supply those requirements. Also, you have to know what setup you are going to use, series or parallel or one LED per driver.
 
Hello I was wondering would this driver HLG-100H-30B Output(s) 30.0V @ 3.20A
Power 100 Watts
Dimensions 8.66 x 2.68 x 1.53"
Operational Efficiency 93.00%
Operating Temperature -40~+70°C

work with a 100 watt chip
 
I believe so. but you need to make double check the specs of the LED too... forward voltage and current. Which LED are you talking about.
 
I should really know the answer to this being an EE. However I don't apply that kind of knowledge very often in the consulting world. So let me scratch a little rust off...let me know if I got this right...

You basically have 2 options: series or parallel (whether that be one LED or several in series on parallel strings)

Series is simple, you look at the Vf of each chip, add them up, and this would be the max Vdrop across the series string, then would would need a driver that could supply that level of voltage at the desired current, up to the max current of the lowest-rated LED on the string (which is why you typically do not mix LEDs of different current ratings within a string).

If you run a bunch of single chips in parallel, then the voltage drop across each is the same, thus you would have to match chips with each other according to their Vf, and the current supplied from the driver would be evenly divided across each chip, assuming that each chip has perfectly identical properties at various equivalent temperature points. In this case, the voltage of the driver would need to be match to the Vf of the chips, and the current would be adjusted such that it equalled the sum of the desired current through each chip.

Similarly, if you ran strings of multiple chips in parallel, the sum of the Vf of each chip would have to match on each string, or else you would end up with one string being off balance and pulling more of the current.

Because of this effect, I understand that it's a good idea to put appropriately sized fuses on each string of any parallel array.

Anyways, the sum of Vf's of a string would then be the voltage which your driver would need to be sized for, and the current would then be the sum of the forward current required for each string.

So let's say you have 4 chips, each requiring 10VDC and 2000mA (or 2A for simplicity). No matter how you cut it, you need an 80W driver.

If you put them in one single string: you need 40V and 2A, P=I*V = 80W
If you put them all in parallel, you need 10V and 8A = 80W driver
If you put them in 2 parallel strings of 2 each, you need 20V and 4A, 80W Driver

You can go through a simial excercise for just about any combination of LEDs, whether that is individual or multichip LEDs. The key is that you need a driver that has the current and voltage rating that can handle the quantity and arrangement of LEDs in your specific array.

Someone correct me if I got this wrong LOL. I hope I didn't I would feel pretty dumb!!
 
@ Floyd,
you are very correct. I hope that is what Im trying to convey too...

And like you said, 80 watts can have a lot of flavoring with it... you can have a 40v with 2 amps or 12 volts with 6.6 amps...

Not because it can do 80 watts, you can run your LEDs on it. Im pretty sure that the 100 watt LED you can buy from ebay will not work on a 12 volt with 8.3 amp power supply which is also 100 watts.


@ Noplay
I think it will work but I have some worries. Maybe Floys can help us here. Your LED is asking for 30-36 forward voltage. And your driver is at 30 volts. I believe you have to consider voltage headroom??? So in theory you can only run up to 26 volts??? that is with 20% headroom or allowance.

Example. The Meanwell ELN 60-48 series is a 48 volt driver. You can only run 12-13 CREE LEDs on them considering the 3.3 forward voltage. So that is 3.3 x 13 = 43 volts. Because we are leaving allowances and not maxing out the voltage specified on the driver.

Why the allowance? I dont know. Maybe experts can chime in here.
 
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Ok so if I need a driver that will power 3 50W chips with a FV of 34 each at 1400mA than I need a 150W power supply. However I need a driver with spec capable of pushing 102V(34*3) and 1400mA correct? Its not just as simple as finding any 150W driver right?


Katchupoy you edited your post and answered my question.
 
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I'd really like someone to answer this cause I'd like to know also. While ac-rc has what seems to be nice products there are other sellers selling what seems to be the same thing. Those 2 100w chips seem to be the same but the cost difference is mind blowing. I know one can be overdriven but if u run them both at 100w. Thanks for the link Floyd. There are many more examples of this on eBay.

It depends on. If you run a chip at 3500 mA and it is constructed to manage 7000 mA you will get more output/watt compared with to run a chip at 3500 mA an it is constructed for just 3500 mA. As an example: Cree XL-M gives ap. 147 L/Watt at 700 mA but at 1500 mA it only gives ap 126 L/Watt - at is maximum 3000 mA it give lesser than 100 L/watt.

According to life span it also a better choise with the chip from AC-RC in this case.

Ebay is full of examples on different prices, thats true - but it is also full of examples of different qualities as well.

Sincerely Lasse
 
Ok so if I need a driver that will power 3 50W chips with a FV of 34 each at 1400mA than I need a 150W power supply. However I need a driver with spec capable of pushing 102V(34*3) and 1400mA correct? Its not just as simple as finding any 150W driver right?

Riddle. Lets try it again.
If you are running it on series then.... The voltage adds up but the current stays the same... in your case, you need 102 volts with 1.4 amps.

If you are running on parallel.... Then the voltage stays and the amps adds up... So you can run it with 34+20% forward voltage with 1.4x3 = 4.2 amps

see the difference?
 
Ok so I need more fv how about this
HLG-100H-42B
Output(s) 42.0V @ 2.23A
Power 100 Watts
Dimensions 8.66 x 2.68 x 1.53"
Operational Efficiency 93.00%
Operating Temperature -40~+70°C

or
HLG-100H-36B
Output(s) 36.0V @ 2.65A
Power 100 Watts
Dimensions 8.66 x 2.68 x 1.53"
Operational Efficiency 93.00%
Operating Temperature -40~+70°C
 
Riddle. Lets try it again.
If you are running it on series then.... The voltage adds up but the current stays the same... in your case, you need 102 volts with 1.4 amps.

If you are running on parallel.... Then the voltage stays and the amps adds up... So you can run it with 34+20% forward voltage with 1.4x3 = 4.2 amps

see the difference?

isnt that exactly what i said :beer:
 
Ok so I need more fv how about this
HLG-100H-42B
Output(s) 42.0V @ 2.23A
Power 100 Watts
Dimensions 8.66 x 2.68 x 1.53"
Operational Efficiency 93.00%
Operating Temperature -40~+70°C

or
HLG-100H-36B
Output(s) 36.0V @ 2.65A
Power 100 Watts
Dimensions 8.66 x 2.68 x 1.53"
Operational Efficiency 93.00%
Operating Temperature -40~+70°C

Either will work wonderfully.... you can even run two LEDs in series at a lower wattage, maybe 80 watts using one driver.
 
Either will work wonderfully.... you can even run two LEDs in series at a lower wattage, maybe 80 watts using one driver.




That Would be great if I could run them in series being the cost. Still trying to figure how to calculate so I can stop being a pest.
 
I should really know the answer to this being an EE. However I don't apply that kind of knowledge very often in the consulting world. So let me scratch a little rust off...let me know if I got this right...

You basically have 2 options: series or parallel (whether that be one LED or several in series on parallel strings)

Series is simple, you look at the Vf of each chip, add them up, and this would be the max Vdrop across the series string, then would would need a driver that could supply that level of voltage at the desired current, up to the max current of the lowest-rated LED on the string (which is why you typically do not mix LEDs of different current ratings within a string).

If you run a bunch of single chips in parallel, then the voltage drop across each is the same, thus you would have to match chips with each other according to their Vf, and the current supplied from the driver would be evenly divided across each chip, assuming that each chip has perfectly identical properties at various equivalent temperature points. In this case, the voltage of the driver would need to be match to the Vf of the chips, and the current would be adjusted such that it equalled the sum of the desired current through each chip.

Similarly, if you ran strings of multiple chips in parallel, the sum of the Vf of each chip would have to match on each string, or else you would end up with one string being off balance and pulling more of the current.

Because of this effect, I understand that it's a good idea to put appropriately sized fuses on each string of any parallel array.

Anyways, the sum of Vf's of a string would then be the voltage which your driver would need to be sized for, and the current would then be the sum of the forward current required for each string.

So let's say you have 4 chips, each requiring 10VDC and 2000mA (or 2A for simplicity). No matter how you cut it, you need an 80W driver.

If you put them in one single string: you need 40V and 2A, P=I*V = 80W
If you put them all in parallel, you need 10V and 8A = 80W driver
If you put them in 2 parallel strings of 2 each, you need 20V and 4A, 80W Driver

You can go through a simial excercise for just about any combination of LEDs, whether that is individual or multichip LEDs. The key is that you need a driver that has the current and voltage rating that can handle the quantity and arrangement of LEDs in your specific array.

Someone correct me if I got this wrong LOL. I hope I didn't I would feel pretty dumb!!

Basically - you do not get this wrong but remember that a LED is a diode. This means that the ratio of voltage, resistance and power is not linear. A little change in voltage across the chip has the effect that the current increases much. For example, an increase of voltage from 2.8 V to 3.3 V in a Cree XL M implies that the current increases from 400 mA to 3000 mA!

To the power LED's, it is better to use power sources that have a constant current than constant voltage. And using the serial connection, rather than parallel.

Sincerely Lasse
 
Thank you Lasse that is a great answer (in post 1375, dang this thread grows fast). I was aware that efficiency (L/W) and current had an inverse relationship, but I thought it odd that they would advertise a chip capable of 252W as a 100W chip unless there was a good reason. You get what you pay for is the case here I guess.

The nice thing about the Meanwell ELN 60-48 drivers is that they are easy to use, you just wire and go, and they're easy to connect to controllers, etc. The larger drivers usually require you to be a bit more knowledgeable about what you are doing, but have their advantages. Like TheFishMan65's board that can run 48 3W LEDs off one driver whereas using meanwells you would need 4. Also factoring in the inrush and harmonics concerns mentioned a few pages back (which I had never heard of until I read it here either). Ok I think I forgot where I was headed with this.

Noplay - Generally a constant current driver is exactly that - you set the current where you wish it to be, and it will maintain that current no matter what the demanded voltage is across the terminals. So if you get a 30V driver and connect an LED to it that need 30-36V, it will only be able to provide it 30V no matter what, it cannot go higher.

However if you get a driver that is capable of 48V and 1.5A (that's only 72W by the way) then you can set the current to the max and the voltage output by the driver will adjust to the needs of the load. In your case, you have a 100W LED that need 30-36V which means the max current for 100W output would be in the range of 2.77-3.33A, not 1.5A. So you would be looking for a 40V 100W power supply I believe.

But then again, I'm not the LED power supply guru, that's just the math, but I'm learning every day!!

EDIT: for above post, yes I wholeheartedly agree which is why I discuss things in terms of power, and leave resistance out of the equation completely. Not sure if I'm following your numbers above. But if I am right, when the current is 400mA the Vf is 2.8V. When the current is 3000mA the Vf is 3.3V. Vdrop is dependent on current, it's not the other way around...right? This of course is the danger of trying to use a CV driver
 
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Thank you Lasse that is a great answer (in post 1375, dang this thread grows fast). I was aware that efficiency (L/W) and current had an inverse relationship, but I thought it odd that they would advertise a chip capable of 252W as a 100W chip unless there was a good reason. You get what you pay for is the case here I guess.

The nice thing about the Meanwell ELN 60-48 drivers is that they are easy to use, you just wire and go, and they're easy to connect to controllers, etc. The larger drivers usually require you to be a bit more knowledgeable about what you are doing, but have their advantages. Like TheFishMan65's board that can run 48 3W LEDs off one driver whereas using meanwells you would need 4. Also factoring in the inrush and harmonics concerns mentioned a few pages back (which I had never heard of until I read it here either). Ok I think I forgot where I was headed with this.

Noplay - Generally a constant current driver is exactly that - you set the current where you wish it to be, and it will maintain that current no matter what the demanded voltage is across the terminals. So if you get a 30V driver and connect an LED to it that need 30-36V, it will only be able to provide it 30V no matter what, it cannot go higher.

However if you get a driver that is capable of 48V and 1.5A (that's only 72W by the way) then you can set the current to the max and the voltage output by the driver will adjust to the needs of the load. In your case, you have a 100W LED that need 30-36V which means the max current for 100W output would be in the range of 2.77-3.33A, not 1.5A. So you would be looking for a 40V 100W power supply I believe.

But then again, I'm not the LED power supply guru, that's just the math, but I'm learning every day!!

EDIT: for above post, yes I wholeheartedly agree which is why I discuss things in terms of power, and leave resistance out of the equation completely. Not sure if I'm following your numbers above. But if I am right, when the current is 400mA the Vf is 2.8V. When the current is 3000mA the Vf is 3.3V. Vdrop is dependent on current, it's not the other way around...right? This of course is the danger of trying to use a CV driver


So Floyd the info from the seller on the led must be incorrect or a typo. because its watts / voltage. Am I correct
 
Divide the watts with voltage you will get the current. or the other way around? So example, 100 watts / 36 volts = 2.7 amps.
 
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